This is all a computer simulation. None of you exist and god is a computer nerd with too much time on his hands. Facetious assertion but go prove otherwise.
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Carl Sagan: Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognize our place in an immensity of light years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual. So are our emotions in the presence of great art or music or literature, or acts of exemplary selfless courage such as those of Mohandas Gandhi or Martin Luther King, Jr. The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both.
Yep. I agree with that.
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
Virtual particles, quantum foam, and something from nothing, and how we know nothing isn't nothing, from of Fermilab.
A bit of review…… The Big Bang… the universe is measured to be 13.8 billion years old. It has a beginning and it is expanding. You will quibble here, but it seems there would be nothing for “Quantum Mechanics” to act on until …after….yep… after…..the Big Bang event.
There is no evidence that the Krauss “nothings” even existed prior to the Big Bang. Further, there is the thought out there that even the existence of “spacetime” much less the governing laws of physics may not have existed or was irrelevant prior to the Big Bang. IDK about that.
Here… is info from Wiki:
“Extrapolation of the expansion of the universe backwards in time using general relativity yields an infinite density and temperature at a finite time in the past.[24] This singularity indicates that general relativity is not an adequate description of the laws of physics in this regime. Models based on general relativity alone can not extrapolate toward the singularity beyond the end of the Planck epoch.
This primordial singularity is itself sometimes called "the Big Bang",[25] but the term can also refer to a more generic early hot, dense phase[26][notes 1] of the universe. In either case, "the Big Bang" as an event is also colloquially referred to as the "birth" of our universe since it represents the point in history where the universe can be verified to have entered into a regime where the laws of physics as we understand them (specifically general relativity and the standard model of particle physics) work. Based on measurements of the expansion using Type Ia supernovae and measurements of temperature fluctuations in the cosmic microwave background, the time that has passed since that event — otherwise known as the "age of the universe" — is 13.799 ± 0.021 billion years.[27] The agreement of independent measurements of this age supports the ΛCDM model that describes in detail the characteristics of the universe.
Despite being extremely dense at this time—far denser than is usually required to form a black hole—the universe did not re-collapse into a black hole. This may be explained by considering that commonly-used calculations and limits for gravitational collapse are usually based upon objects of relatively constant size, such as stars, and do not apply to rapidly expanding space such as the Big Bang.”
Science is still limited in understanding all of this, but it seems that the Big Band had to happen ..…..before….. the laws of physics had anything to “act on.” All we see in this physical world had a beginning. I believe the action initiator to be the Creator God.
The a-theist might reply that yes it happened and yes it had a beginning but there must be some other explanation other than God. “Since I am an atheist, any and all explanations involving God must be sneered at and deemed not applicable because “God” can’t be demonstrated in the laboratory.”
Echo chamber…..
Last edited by TF49; 07/07/19.
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
However most of the others you did not respond, but you claim to have proven they do not exist. You have not done that.
You have yet to even respond to my first example about the contradictions between God in the Old and God in the New Testament.
Below quoted from evidence demands a reason by Josh McDowell
Isn’t the Old Testament God a God of Hate and the New Testament God a God of Love?
Another of the frequent accusations against the Bible is that it contains two different conceptions of God.
The Old Testament allegedly presents only a God of wrath, while the New Testament allegedly depicts only a God of love.
The Old Testament contains stories of God’s commanding the destruction ofSodom, the annihilation of the Canaanites, and many other stories of God’s judgment and wrath. The accusers claim this demonstrates a primitive, warlike deity in contradistinction to the advanced teachings of Jesus to love one another and to turn the other cheek, as contained in the Sermon on the Mount.
These ideas about God seem to be in direct conflict, but a moment’s reflection will show otherwise.
Jesus Himself declared that the Old Testament may be summed up by the commandments to love God and love your neighbor (Matthew 22:37). He also observed that God in the Old Testament had continually desired love and mercy rather than sacrifice (Matthew 9:13; 12:7).
This attitude can be seen with statements such as, “Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked… and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?” (Ezekiel 18:23, RSV).
God would not have destroyed certain nations except that He is a God of justice and their evil could not go unchecked and condoned.
He did intend and desire to punish them as a part of His plan, in consistency with His holy nature and jealousy for His wayfaring people. What He desires in consistency with His pure character, He does in justice, in their case, providing they have not repented and come into harmony with His nature (Jeremiah 18).
In the case of the Amorites, God gave them hundreds of years to repent, yet they did not (Genesis 15:16). Noah preached 120 years to his generation before the great flood (Genesis 6:3). The proper Old Testament picture is one of a very patient God who gives these people untold opportunities to repent and come into harmony with Him, and only when they continually refuse does He judge and punish them for their evil deeds. Contrary to some popular belief, the strongest statements of judgment and wrath in the Bible were made by the Lord Jesus Himself.
In Matthew 23, for example, He lashed out at the religious leaders of His day, calling them hypocrites and false leaders, and informing them that their destiny was eternal banishment from God’s presence.
In Matthew 10:34 (KJV), Jesus says that the purpose of His mission is not to unite but to divide. “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.” He goes on to say that His word will cause a father to be against his son, a mother against her daughter, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law (Matthew 10:35).
We find judgment as well as love scattered very pervasively throughout the New Testament, and love and mercy as well as judgment throughout the Old Testament.
God is consistent and unchanging, but different situations call for different emphases. Therefore, when the two testaments are read the way they were intended, they reveal the same holy God who is rich in mercy, but who will not let sin go unpunished.
Thank you for responding and bringing your thoughts to the conversation. I still can not agree. A God of justice would not have killed innocent people including kids. Jesus never condoned anything that evil.
Moses: DEUTERONOMY 2:34 At that time we took all his towns and completely destroyed them – men, women and children. We left no survivors. DEUTERONOMY 3:6 We completely destroyed them, as we had done with Sihon king of Heshbon, destroying every city – men, women and children.
There sits the heart of the matter. Like a festering boil.
The assumption teachings by the modern Church that these were innocent people is nothing more than that, an assumption. Further study of their lineage shows who they actually were and innocent is not a word that accurately describes them. Jag gave a very good hint as to who they are while Mathew 13:24-30 describes them very well.
Your response to the modern church teachings is right on the money. Had they not lied or mislead people as to what was transpiring, what the true goal of Lucifer is, and who's who and from what lineage, then your response would not be accurate. Leave a chapter or a book out of the teaching of Mathematics, or Science, Biology, or any other important subject and the whole teaching goes to Hell in a hand basket right along with the teachers. It is the same with the History and the Bible.
Virtual particles, quantum foam, and something from nothing, and how we know nothing isn't nothing, from of Fermilab.
Just the next Magic Larry... the latest “great hope” from them non-god folks?
Redefining nothing ..... again.....so the science can “work?”
Lame....
Did he say “let’s start by assuming virtual particles exist?”
And then he provided the experimental evidence that they do.
Your level of disdain for science is amazing. That's one of the risks of blind faith. It blind the theist to the real progress of science.
Nope. I like science and think it is great. I do however have a low tolerance for baloney and mis-direction. Especially when so called scientists misuse their credentials and their data. Scientists can be out and out liars and charlatans. You and I and everyone else reading this know that.
To Lincoln’s credit, he did state assumptions. Ok.... but to then use this video and imply that it shows that something came from nothing is just pure baloney. What Larry does is just one step away from pure fraud. He just totally misdirects about what “nothing is.” Colbert caught that in a couple of minutes.
Let me ask a question..... does Krauss use his “science” for his own gain? You bet he does. Huckster.
So, how does the Big Bang happen? Something .....indeed everything from “nothing?” If you believe that when there is no scientific basis indicates ..... blind faith..... or maybe blinders, firmly in place and fixed solidly.
I read an article quite some time ago.... said that the physical laws as we know them were not applicable during the first instant of the Big Bang.......?????
If so, how can that be if everything can spontaneously come from nothing and be demonstrated with our physical laws?
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
Man has a feeling of self importance, and a need to believe in an afterlife. Because no evidence of an afterlife exists, he had to invent one. Quoting the bible is a emotional response not a logical one.( I'm sure the response to this from believers will be emotional or childish, not logical )
None in creation except humans have the brain to consider an afterlife, or from whence they came, or being moral for the sake of civilization and their kind, or going to the moon.
Amazing what being created in His image allows us to do, if we dream to.
Last edited by jaguartx; 07/07/19.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
created in His image ? isn't that a quote from the bible? Quoting from a fictional book (the bible) to prove a point is an emotional response,please use facts not what you want to believe is true. I'm sure if you answer it will be with another "belief" and not a fact. Not trying to sway your belief in god only get you to see the difference in fact and belief,seems emotional thinkers can't do this. In politics liberals use emotion just like you are using them in religion.
Man has a feeling of self importance, and a need to believe in an afterlife. Because no evidence of an afterlife exists, he had to invent one. Quoting the bible is a emotional response not a logical one.( I'm sure the response to this from believers will be emotional or childish, not logical )
Independent peer reviewed scientific studies of near death experiences?
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Man has a feeling of self importance, and a need to believe in an afterlife. Because no evidence of an afterlife exists, he had to invent one. Quoting the bible is a emotional response not a logical one.( I'm sure the response to this from believers will be emotional or childish, not logical )
Independent peer reviewed scientific studies of near death experiences?
And what exactly where the results of those studies when notes were put on the tops of equipment in the operating rooms?
Exactly how many instances were there of people claiming near death experiences able to accurately report back what was written on the notes?
The answer is a whole number less than 1.....
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Where do you get the idea God has no jealousy? God tells us "My name is Jealous because I am a jealous God." (Exodus 34) You are anthropomorphizing God. You, and most including Christians, are missing the concept that God is Infinite. He fills the universe. Even the "space" between electrons and proton. That means when He loves He loves infinitely. Consider He set a rule that death is the punishment for sin and man's death cannot atone for his own sin. That's His rule and we can't do a thing to change it. So He sent His only Begotten Son to die for that punishment as a propitiation for all who will accept His Gift of His Son. When He hates He hates infinitely. Consider the Flood of Noah's time. Beautiful virgins, cute kittens, cuddly puppies, mean old men and caring mothers, lions, tigers, bears and yes even dinosaurs were all treated the same. We find their fossils in water born sediments all over the world.
No, this has nothing to do with me or 'my idea' - I am merely pointing out the contradictions between verses that clearly state that God is love, that Love is not jealous and verses that portray a vicious jealous God.
Once again....please take note of the attributes of a God of Love as described in the Bible as opposed to descriptions of a jealous vindictive God. The contradiction is undeniable. It is not something I am claiming, it is there in the bible;
"God is love." - 1 John 4:8 "Love is not jealous." - 1 Corinthians 13:4 "God is jealous." - Exodus 20:5
1 Corinthians 13; Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.''
1 John 4:7-8; Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
As opposed to
Exodus 20:55 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,
Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?" (Amos 3:6, KJV)
"Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? " (Lamentations 3:38)
The Lord is a man of war, Exodus 15:3.
"The Lord shall go forth as a mighty man, He shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: He shall cry, yea roar; He shall prevail against His enemies". Isaiah 42:13
I don't know who you are quoting but I never posted what you assigned to me as a quote. Let's try to be credible in who we assign as quoting--maybe it was an oversight ...
Bowsinger I think we have more than proven the alleged contradictions do not exist with every alleged contradiction that we have addressed with you. If you are not willing to see that, then more of the same will not profit you. I have not seen you post anything that cannot be reconciled. It comes down to what you are willing to believe and not what is honestly believable. One thing you are bringing to the forefront about the Bible is that it typically presents both sides of an issue so we can see it from all angles. A person gets very skewed in their perspectives when they always look at an issue from one vantage point. Are you willing to look at evidence from an honest perspective? Are you able to step outside your skepticism? Do you honestly seek truth? A child cannot learn from their teacher unless they first accept that their teacher has knowledge to impart. You will never find truth until you first accept that their is truth to be known...
I want to thank you for helping me prove the Bible is riddled with contradictions. I have a lot more of them.
Every one that I have posted and you have responded; you state that there is no contradiction. Then you explain and give reasons for the contradiction.
For example...“… the earth abideth for ever.” — Ecclesiastes 1:4 the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” — 2Pet
You responded with a good explanation about the earth being destroyed and than renewed. So the “earth abideth forever” still remains a contradiction.
However most of the others you did not respond, but you claim to have proven they do not exist. You have not done that.
You have yet to even respond to my first example about the contradictions between God in the Old and God in the New Testament. Did the authors evolve from God killing children, raining burning sulfur, and genocide to the gentle teachings of Jesus?
You tell me to seek the truth. But I say onto you that the truth in not in you.
After 4 examples if you cannot see the contradictions are in your own mind and not the text, then responding to 6 more will only illustrate the same point. Not meaning to be disrespectful but the level you go to try to prove something that cannot be proven only weakens the position you hold. The contradictions that I addressed are not very difficult to resolve--it only takes some context, honest inquiry, and common sense.
After 4 examples of Bible contradictions that you cannot resolve...I am still waiting for your response to the contradictions between God in the Old and God in the New Testament. To me, that is the biggest one of all. Moses: DEUTERONOMY 2:34 At that time we took all his towns and completely destroyed them – men, women and children. We left no survivors. DEUTERONOMY 3:6 We completely destroyed them, as we had done with Sihon king of Heshbon, destroying every city – men, women and children.
Meanwhile here is another contradiction Incest “Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of this mother…” — Deuteronomy 27:22 “And if a man shall take his sister, his father’s daughter, or his mother’s daughter…it is a wicked thing….” — Leviticus 20:17
[But what was god’s reaction to Abraham, who married his sister — his father’s daughter?] See Genesis 20:11-12 “And God said unto Abraham, As for Sara thy wife…I bless her, and give thee a son also of her…” — Genesis 17:15-16
Again the 4 alleged contradictions I addressed were shown to be none at all. I did not notice any place where the explanation was logically refuted.
Explain how the God of Israel as portrayed in the OT is any different from God as declared in the NT? The establishment of the nation of Israel was given with specific boundaries. Those boundaries are in stark contrast to the methods employed by other pagan nations at that time when they conquered an enemy. Have you ever studied the qualifications given for the conquest of Canaan in comparison to the surrounding heathen practices of warfare?
Regarding incest: Those laws were given by Moses long after the time of Abraham had passed. In the early days of the human race there were close family intermarriages. When the human race expanded, the laws of incest were instituted by Moses. This is another example of an alleged contradiction that only exists in the mind of someone who neither knows nor understands Scripture and who is not making an honest inquiry regarding truth.
24 pages and not a single fact to prove there is a "god". Only the bible said this and that. It seems that once you are brainwashed into believing there is a god what you believe and fictional books become facts. Can't believers just say I believe in god but have no proof ? Will this stimulate 24 more pages of no facts?
Heck,
I'm not even asking for proof, just some good evidence. They can't even produce that.
Nah, the evidence for a Creator is right in front of you but you choose not to acknowledge it.
Which is crazier..... “God created the world”. Or the “The world came into existence from ‘nothing’.....’nothing created everything we see”
And don’t start that Magic Larry business again. Even a comic like a Stephen Colbert showed ML started with something. Larry just gave his book a misleading title.
With all due respect, the various forms of the Cosmological Arguments are nothing more than arguments from ignorance. Even if we accepted all the premises of the argument, which I don't, you are still left holding an empty sack, because there's no logical way to move from "there must be a creator", to "that creator is (your preferred version of your preferred god)".
So are you admitting that the Cosmological arguments require intelligent design or are you trying to avoid the statistical, mathematical, and scientific requirements from those arguments?
For those not on the short list to get into heaven, take heart that God is still with you in hell.
Psa 139:7-12 KJV -
7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? 8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. 9 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; 10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me. 11 If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me. 12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.
This is another good example of the skeptics lack of Scriptural understanding: The word hell is used to mean grave or place of punishment. David is saying if he dies or takes his life and should he go to the grave or the abode of the wicked he will not escape the judgment of God. In the final judgment death and hell will give up their dead to stand before the Great White throne judgment to be tried for their deeds on earth. Rev.20:13
Alleged contradictions that are based on a lack of understanding are not legitimate contradictions--they are alleged contradictions that exist in the mind that is prejudiced against reconciliation or truth.
Over 40 years ago I prayed as hard as I knew how for the life of a small child who was my grandson. That didn't work out and I have learned to accept that. What was worse was the feeling I came away with that there was Nobody on the other end of the line.
Tried it again about 20 years later for a parent who was suffering and was ready to go. That same feeling came back; loud and clear.
I am very sorry for your losses. God does not always intervene in miraculous ways against the laws of nature--but He is the only one who can. We can become bitter against God because He did not answer prayers the way we wanted Him to ... all believers share in the experiences of the laws of nature taking effect and God not miraculously intervening on our behalf. Yet if I reject or get angry with God--nothing changes regarding my reality or pain. My experiences of pain cannot create or destroy the existence of God and they stay with me.
If I choose anger against God, I keep my reality and my pain and I add to it resentment and bitterness against God whom, we say, does not exist (an oxymoron) and my life becomes a meaningless chain of random and painful events.I have seen many believers face tremendous pain and suffering, and yield their pain to God, knowing He loves them in spite of these difficult circumstances and is still working for their good. I have seen them yield to His sovereign will and move on through life and reach out to others when they are suffering. I have seen their suffering equip them to minister to others in need. I have heard them testify that God has always worked all things out for their good. This is also my faith, and by God's grace I have needed to yield to His will when it was not my own, but I have also seen God move on my behalf in miraculous ways.
100 people can read the bible and they will come up with 100 different answers as to what different verses are trying to say. Of course each will believe only their interpretation is correct.
