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And here's directions from God on what to do with that HOT captive:
21:10 When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive,
21:11 And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife
21:12 Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;
21:13 And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife. Which means as a wife she had the privileges of a Jewess. Again I remind you that these laws are only relevant to the Jews. As Gentile Christian's we have never practiced this. All your points are irrelevant to our times. You however are making sweeping statements about Judaism who still considers their laws to be in effect. Additionally you fa to recognize that whatever charge you make against Judaism is multiplied against ancient paganism. Furthermore no one has answered if the I discriminate bombing of Germany and Japan on a larger scale was moral. You are not engaging in honest discussion. The bombing of Germany and Japan was not at the instruction of your (alleged) God, so it's irrelevant. Besides, you don't excuse bad behavior with other bad behaviors. The person not being honest is you. There's not moral equivalent between the aggression of the Axis powers in WWII and a few young bucks getting with some of the hotties from the neighboring tribe. Additionally, after the Axis powers surrendered, WE DIDN'T MURDER EVERYONE EXCEPT THE BREEDING AGE VIRGINS. We did not engage in Genocide, in contrast, the Bible details over 30 genocides committed by the Israelites.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Pedophilia was condemned in the family. Sparing their lives does not equate to pedophilia.
Leviticus 18:7–16; Leviticus 20:11–21
Spoils of war were considered family? Yes, sparing their lives does not equate to pedophilia, but the point was, that it was not forbidden either. It would help if you looked at all the evidence I provided. They were not to fornicate with or take heathen wives. If they converted they were to be a wife. That criteria forbids it. Again these were only the laws of Judaism for those times. You guys all keep making irrelevant points because that is all you have to make.
Last edited by Thunderstick; 07/09/19.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The agenda is to destroy the only nation dedicated to God by inculcating in peoples minds that we are nothing more than pissants and rats and there is no reason for morals and that animalistic behavior and pedophelia are A OK. IOW, the agenda is to follow the satan they deny the existence of.
The God in Numbers via Moses certainly seems to not condemn pedophelia. And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites ... And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males ... And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones ... And Moses was wroth with the officers ... And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. Numbers 31:1-18 Moab and Midian are the same confederate nation. Num.22:4 Their women seduced Israelite men and brought a judgment upon themselves. Num.25 As a result God called for their destruction since they were bent on destroying Israel by using sex to introduce them to false worship. But again all the nations were given warning ahead of time that they could make peace with Israel otherwise God would destroy them for their sin which had reached its fullness. Midian chose the path of seduction and depravity and reaped the promised judgment that they were forewarned about. The females below puberty were spared. Those who were spared were always given the option of following Jehovah and being included in the Jewish festivals. You should take a few minutes to contemplate what you are actually saying. Moses told them to keep the 32,000 Virgins alive, but kill everyone else. So how many people did they murder? 150,000? 250,000?....and for what, a few young men did what young men do, so they killed everyone but kept all those wicked virgins for themselves? But you don't see this as an atrocity? Really? No it was not under those times and conditions. Under your system of an absolute, unchanging morality, (remember your rant again Moral Relativism) it would still be justified today. Your blind faith has broken your morality.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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And here's directions from God on what to do with that HOT captive:
21:10 When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive,
21:11 And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife
21:12 Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;
21:13 And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife. Which means as a wife she had the privileges of a Jewess. Again I remind you that these laws are only relevant to the Jews. As Gentile Christian's we have never practiced this. All your points are irrelevant to our times. You however are making sweeping statements about Judaism who still considers their laws to be in effect. Additionally you fa to recognize that whatever charge you make against Judaism is multiplied against ancient paganism. Furthermore no one has answered if the I discriminate bombing of Germany and Japan on a larger scale was moral. You are not engaging in honest discussion. The bombing of Germany and Japan was not at the instruction of your (alleged) God, so it's irrelevant. Besides, you don't excuse bad behavior with other bad behaviors. The person not being honest is you. There's not moral equivalent between the aggression of the Axis powers in WWII and a few young bucks getting with some of the hotties from the neighboring tribe. Additionally, after the Axis powers surrendered, WE DIDN'T MURDER EVERYONE EXCEPT THE BREEDING AGE VIRGINS. We did not engage in Genocide, in contrast, the Bible details over 30 genocides committed by the Israelites. Under those times it would not have been considered an atrocity by any God/god or nation. Your alleged morals would have scorned by all nations of that time. They all were more brutal than Israel including child sacrifice. What moral standard are you basing your judgment on? Certainly not one in effect in those times. Your reasoning is typical liberal with no moral basis or consideration of ancient law. There is no moral transgression unless a moral law is broken. The Canaanites were offered terms of surrender. Israel was not allowed to expand beyond their prescribed borders with these measures. Any current moral standard of judgment that you introduce will also not apply to those times but will apply to Allied bombings. Your thesis fails.
Last edited by Thunderstick; 07/09/19.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Under those times it would not have been considered an atrocity by any God/god or nation. So you are a moral relativist.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Without being able to note a recognized moral law that was in effect at that time which was broken you have no case at all. Had God not used extreme measures in those times all national righteousness would have been annihilated.
Since the coming of Christ and change of covenant it is completely different.
Last edited by Thunderstick; 07/09/19.
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Pedophilia was condemned in the family. Sparing their lives does not equate to pedophilia.
Leviticus 18:7–16; Leviticus 20:11–21
Spoils of war were considered family? Yes, sparing their lives does not equate to pedophilia, but the point was, that it was not forbidden either. It would help if you looked at all the evidence I provided. They were not to fornicate with or take heathen wives. If they converted they were to be a wife. That criteria forbids it. Again these were only the laws of Judaism for those times. You guys all keep making irrelevant points because that is all you have to make. Begs the question: Why did God (via Moses) command the murder of all except for virgin girls to keep for their own? What qualities do virgin girls have that non-virgin girls do not? Seems pretty relevant to me that God would make this very specific command.
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Easy to explain if you understand their pagan fertility rites of passage which involved fornication to the glory of the gods.
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Easy to explain if you understand their pagan fertility rites of passage which involved fornication to the glory of the gods.
Please explain then why the virgin boys were not spared?
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Your moral judgment fails for lack of a broken moral code.
What you established quite clearly is that Jesus NEEDED to come to this world to change it. He did and it changed the course of history. What other man of history so changed world events so much so that we organize our calendars around that event even if we use new nomenclature? Jesus moral teachings changed the world for the better when no one else could. He influenced the morality of our founders.
Where is there another example of a simple carpenter with no political protection changing the course of history? He needed to be more than a carpenter to do so and He was.
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The sons would surely stand by the faith of their fathers. It's in our male DNA to protect and avenge our heritage especially in those times.
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Under those times it would not have been considered an atrocity by any God/god or nation. So you are a moral relativist. The opposite...I believe in the absolutes of what are in effect by God. What is your moral standard?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Without being able to note a recognized moral that was in effect at that which was broken you have no case at all. Had God not used extreme measures in those times all national righteousness would have been annihilated.
Since the coming of Christ and change of covenant it is completely different. So the morals did change and are not absolute?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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[quote=Thunderstick][quote=carbon12][quote=jaguartx]
The agenda is to destroy the only nation dedicated to God by inculcating in peoples minds that we are nothing more than pissants and rats and there is no reason for morals and that animalistic behavior and pedophelia are A OK. IOW, the agenda is to follow the satan they deny the existence of. The God in Numbers via Moses certainly seems to not condemn pedophelia. And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites ... And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males ... And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones ... And Moses was wroth with the officers ... And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman Under your system of an absolute, unchanging morality, (remember your rant again Moral Relativism) it would still be justified today. Your blind faith has broken your morality. The 10 commandments were the only eternal International moral code for given forever to all nations and ratified by the NT. The Jewish ceremonial and civil laws were Israeli and cancelled by Christ's death. It was nailed to cross and died with Him. The gospel fulfills the moral code beyond what the Jewish civil laws could.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Under those times it would not have been considered an atrocity by any God/god or nation. So you are a moral relativist. The opposite...I believe in the absolutes of what are in effect by God. What is your moral standard? But your "god" couldn't get it right the first time?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Under those times it would not have been considered an atrocity by any God/god or nation. So you are a moral relativist. The opposite...I believe in the absolutes of what are in effect by God. What is your moral standard? But your "god" couldn't get it right the first time? He ordered it as He saw fit. He always portrayed a coming change when the world was ready. As much as you guys cry about ancient evidence He chose to wait till the world was more civilized and organized. Rome literally paved the world for the Gospel and the Greeks gave it a universal language.
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You should appreciate that He waited to give you better evidence.
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The sons would surely stand by the faith of their fathers. It's in our male DNA to protect and avenge our heritage especially in those times. Pure speculation.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The sons would surely stand by the faith of their fathers. It's in our male DNA to protect and avenge our heritage especially in those times. Pure speculation. Yep. Just like the sons of Japan and Germany avenged their fathers after WWII.......oh.....wait....They are our allies now.... And while I was in Japan, I was seduced by so many local girls, and pretty much every one of my buddies who served in Germany was seduced by the local girls.....so by the absolute moral standards set by the unchanging God of Thunderstick as set forth in the example of the genocide of the Midionites, we should wipe out Japan and Germany and kill everyone except the breeding age Virgins....
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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If not for sex, what was the value of Midionite virgin girls v.s. non virgin girls that God commanded to be spared?
Then again, the OT is silent on the immorality of pedophilia.
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