As I tried to point out Thomas Jefferson had the same problems with the Bible, yet he still believed in God, the Creator.
"Among the sayings and discourses imputed to him (i.e. Jesus) by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being." Source: Letter of Thomas Jefferson to William Short, April 13, 1820.
Neither God nor we are obligated to provide answers that suit your preferences nor do we recognize a need for any further reconciliation. The truth does not need to be palatable to liberals, it only needs to be true. Unless you are omniscient you cannot possibly judge a cosmic plan that none of us can fully comprehend with our finite minds. As to Jefferson, while I respect him in many ways, his thoughts on the Bible were in the minority among the founders--which is why his Bible is nothing more than a museum relic and the real one is read all over the world without a knowledge that pen-knifed personalized Jeffersonian version exists that carries no authority.
p.s. In cutting with a pen knife how does one exactly know which portions to cut so that both sides of the page are infallibly corrected--unless a person has an infallible mind and possesses what he says does not exist in the Bible.
You are obligated to provide answers that suit our preferences if you want to convince us of the correctness of your position. Otherwise, why are you here wasting time?
We are not trying to present truth in order for you to find it acceptable. We Proclaim truth because that is the only thing that will save mankind. There are also others who are reading who have the opportunity to hear the truth and to see how skepticism has no answers . Again our responsibility is to proclaim the truth and not to make decisions for you. If we water down the truth to make it palatable do a mind of unbelief what we offered would be of no value.
Furthermore Thomas Jefferson's butcher job on the Bible did not resolve any alleged contradictions between the morals of the Old Testament and the morals of Jesus Christ. In that sense the Bible that he created is worthless.
Since you have failed to resolve the Biblical contradictions we have pointed out, are your posts here also worthless? In that sense of course.
As I tried to point out Thomas Jefferson had the same problems with the Bible, yet he still believed in God, the Creator.
"Among the sayings and discourses imputed to him (i.e. Jesus) by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being." Source: Letter of Thomas Jefferson to William Short, April 13, 1820.
Neither God nor we are obligated to provide answers that suit your preferences nor do we recognize a need for any further reconciliation. The truth does not need to be palatable to liberals, it only needs to be true. Unless you are omniscient you cannot possibly judge a cosmic plan that none of us can fully comprehend with our finite minds. As to Jefferson, while I respect him in many ways, his thoughts on the Bible were in the minority among the founders--which is why his Bible is nothing more than a museum relic and the real one is read all over the world without a knowledge that pen-knifed personalized Jeffersonian version exists that carries no authority.
p.s. In cutting with a pen knife how does one exactly know which portions to cut so that both sides of the page are infallibly corrected--unless a person has an infallible mind and possesses what he says does not exist in the Bible.
You are obligated to provide answers that suit our preferences if you want to convince us of the correctness of your position. Otherwise, why are you here wasting time?
We are not trying to present truth in order for you to find it acceptable. We Proclaim truth because that is the only thing that will save mankind. There are also others who are reading who have the opportunity to hear the truth and to see how skepticism has no answers . Again our responsibility is to proclaim the truth and not to make decisions for you. If we water down the truth to make it palatable do a mind of unbelief what we offered would be of no value.
What good is your proclaimed truth if it withers when examined skeptically and fails on it's face ?
Last edited by carbon12; 07/10/19. Reason: uuuuurp
The contradictions which you allege in my opinion, outside of my faith, and trying to look at it objectively from an intellectual point of view, have no merit. To me they are contrived and there is more straining of logic to present the objection then there is to make the obvious reconciliation.
Having said all that I do want you to know that I have done my personal best with good intentions and sincere efforts to answer your questions according to the rules of logic and the scriptures. What I am saying is I will not change the message in order to make it more acceptable to someone from your point of view. That is a choice that you must make and if I have done my job it now lies between you and God as to how the matter will be settled.
The contradictions which you allege in my opinion, outside of my faith, and trying to look at it objectively from an intellectual point of view, have no merit. To me they are contrived and there is more straining of logic to present the objection then there is to make the obvious reconciliation.
Having said all that I do want you to know that I have done my personal best with good intentions and sincere efforts to answer your questions according to the rules of logic and the scriptures. What I am saying is I will not change the message in order to make it more acceptable to someone from your point of view. That is a choice that you must make and if I have done my job it now lies between you and God as to how the matter will be settled.
Furthermore Thomas Jefferson's butcher job on the Bible did not resolve any alleged contradictions between the morals of the Old Testament and the morals of Jesus Christ. In that sense the Bible that he created is worthless.
Since you have failed to resolve the Biblical contradictions we have pointed out, are your posts here also worthless? In that sense of course.
Jefferson claimed he improved the bible. Took a lot of superstition out of it. His quotes about that make him a lot smarter than the quotes of those who say he butchered the bible.
Last edited by BOWSINGER; 07/10/19.
Leo of the Land of Dyr
NRA FOR LIFE
I MISS SARAH
“In Trump We Trust.” Right????
SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."
I find it very interesting to note the alleged distress over OT morality in the Jewish culture, but no distress over a worse morality in the surrounding nations of that time, and no distress over the current moral decline being promoted by these same skeptics in our time. The logical inconsistency is very evident.
In my view, you have pretty much right in the money with your responses.
These hidebound skeptics that show up.....,the seagulls....are simply sitting in their own judgment of God. They are actually “judging” God. Of course, this doesn’t turn out to well for them.
One clear example of misguided thinking is this “gathering of sticks” issue. The stick gather is not judged for the mere act of gathering wood, he is judged for clearly and willfully disobeying God. If you will, “sticking his finger up at God.”
The seagulls want to continue in their sin, continue in their rebellion and continue to behave as it they will not be held accountable.
I have heard many versions of the “God failed to convince me” excuse over the years.
Anyway, one clear teaching that the seagulls apparently don’t see is that God....the Law.... does not tolerate sin. Sin is not tolerated in heaven. This should give them a sobering thought. Apparently it does not. Tragic.
They will not see the light until..... now or later..... until they feel the heat.
Oh, also, the seagulls are apparently pacifists. They do not believe in survival by way of war. They should study history. When someone harms you or your children, retaliatory responses are appropriate.
Sour grapes. We are not talking about the morality of tribal societies at that time, or at any time. The issue is with the morality of God as described in the bible, which surprise, surprise, is no better than the morals of the people living in the time of writing.
The Israelis were always to offer peace, did not torture their POWs, and did not feed their children to the fire, were to accept those who wished to join them, and you don't see any difference. How tightly we must close our eyes.
The seagulls want to continue in their sin, continue in their rebellion ..
[re:Romans] Paul indicated it was beyond his human ability to discontinue sinning. No matter how much he wanted to stop. he was unavoidably a transgressor enslaved/ bound to a sinful life.
nobody that walks the earth is any better than Paul in that regard.
Originally Posted by BOWSINGER
there was a complete shift in the god of the old testament versus the god of the new testament...
..when god failed in his implementation of rules in the old testament, he re-invented himself and began a new tact in the new testament.
One attracts more bees with honey than lemons.
A new millennia sympathetic Jesus posterboy front man [vs] his faceless patriarchal arbitrary revengeful blood thirsty autocrat old man.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
The Israelis were always to offer peace, did not torture their POWs, and did not feed their children to the fire, were to accept those who wished to join them, and you don't see any difference. How tightly we must close our eyes.
Again, the issue is not with what the people of the time thought or how they behaved, but the morality and actions attributed to God.
Is it merciful to have a man stoned to death for gathering sticks on a Sabbath? Is it an example of good morality?
By our own standards, I'd point out that it is neither merciful or moral to kill someone for such reason.
Everything was originally created perfect and then man sinned. The sinful human nature is undeniably present in the selfish nature of a child. The problem is not God but with what man has done with their opportunities ...
Whoa!
What you just said is: man was able to derail God's Original Perfect Plan pretty much at the very onset. Does not say much about where God got his omniscience.
God purposely set up Adam & Eve for the Fall. iF God didn't know Adam Eve were going to take the bait God purposely put before them , then he can't be all knowing. iF he is all knowing then Adam & Eve were only role playing/following Gods script of what was divinely pre-ordained.
if Adam + Eve (and Judas) were really able to do what they wanted without Gods plan dictating, then it would have risked the whole BIble narrative falling apart.
Originally Posted by carbon12
Originally Posted by Thunderstick
God does not always intervene to shield us from the circumstances of our choices.
When has God ever intervened?
Would be interesting to hear where CF christians have personally witnessed instances where God has intervened and how they have verified such to be the case.
wE do have a few on the CF who claim to have been touched by God, but nothing that counts as anything more than delusion-wishful thinking on their part.....We used to find those types typically on street corners clutching a Bible and causing noise pollution, now technology allows them to infiltrate the internet - social media.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
That is not the issue. Satan is the issue. Its the issue with you because satan has you. If it werent that, it would be something else.
Like a lieberal, you can see imperfection in anything. You find thatbwhich you seek.
Satan is described as doing the will of God in the book of Job, acting against Job according to the instructions of God for the sake of wager...a wager that an omniscient God cannot help but win.
The Israelis were always to offer peace, did not torture their POWs, and did not feed their children to the fire, were to accept those who wished to join them, and you don't see any difference. How tightly we must close our eyes.
Again, the issue is not with what the people of the time thought or how they behaved, but the morality and actions attributed to God.
Is it merciful to have a man stoned to death for gathering sticks on a Sabbath? Is it an example of good morality?
By our own standards, I'd point out that it is neither merciful or moral to kill someone for such reason.
That was the point which was being made by the person I responded to. As soon as the point is answered you say it wasn't the point.
The Israelis were always to offer peace, did not torture their POWs, and did not feed their children to the fire, were to accept those who wished to join them, and you don't see any difference. How tightly we must close our eyes.
Again, the issue is not with what the people of the time thought or how they behaved, but the morality and actions attributed to God.
Is it merciful to have a man stoned to death for gathering sticks on a Sabbath? Is it an example of good morality?
By our own standards, I'd point out that it is neither merciful or moral to kill someone for such reason.
What standards do you have and where can I find them recorded?
That is not the issue. Satan is the issue. Its the issue with you because satan has you. If it werent that, it would be something else.
Like a lieberal, you can see imperfection in anything. You find thatbwhich you seek.
Satan is described as doing the will of God in the book of Job, acting against Job according to the instructions of God for the sake of wager...a wager that an omniscient God cannot help but win.
And?
Did God or Satan win? Ride the losing side for all i care.
You think youre hot stuff. His ways are above ours. How many did God save by His actions? How many are you saving? How many is Satan saving?
But you, a soon to be cold turd, can judge God?
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
