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The Israelis were always to offer peace, did not torture their POWs, and did not feed their children to the fire, were to accept those who wished to join them, and you don't see any difference. How tightly we must close our eyes. Again, the issue is not with what the people of the time thought or how they behaved, but the morality and actions attributed to God. Is it merciful to have a man stoned to death for gathering sticks on a Sabbath? Is it an example of good morality? By our own standards, I'd point out that it is neither merciful or moral to kill someone for such reason. What standards do you have and where can I find them recorded? You can find them in the new testament, I have quoted verses that refer to God in terms of love and descriptions of the nature of love. Descriptions that contradict the actions of God as described in OT.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Eph 1:5-7
He predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will-- to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Campfire Tracker
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The Israelis were always to offer peace, did not torture their POWs, and did not feed their children to the fire, were to accept those who wished to join them, and you don't see any difference. How tightly we must close our eyes. Again, the issue is not with what the people of the time thought or how they behaved, but the morality and actions attributed to God. Is it merciful to have a man stoned to death for gathering sticks on a Sabbath? Is it an example of good morality? By our own standards, I'd point out that it is neither merciful or moral to kill someone for such reason. That was the point which was being made by the person I responded to. As soon as the point is answered you say it wasn't the point. Just answering is not the same as offering an actual rebuttal using logic, reason and evidence The 'answers' come in the form of dismissals and denials rather than reasoned arguments.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Jan 2016
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The Israelis were always to offer peace, did not torture their POWs, and did not feed their children to the fire, were to accept those who wished to join them, and you don't see any difference. How tightly we must close our eyes. Again, the issue is not with what the people of the time thought or how they behaved, but the morality and actions attributed to God. Is it merciful to have a man stoned to death for gathering sticks on a Sabbath? Is it an example of good morality? By our own standards, I'd point out that it is neither merciful or moral to kill someone for such reason. What standards do you have and where can I find them recorded? You can find them in the new testament, I have quoted verses that refer to God in terms of love and descriptions of the nature of love. Descriptions that contradict the actions of God as described in OT. So, your interpretation of love is different from His. So is your idea of good, evil, right, wrong, life and death. Whats new? Oh, i get it. He better toe your line. Good luck, butter cup. Im sure for you, Satan will measure up.
Last edited by jaguartx; 07/10/19.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,097
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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...How many did God save by His actions? .. How many is Satan saving? please tell, how many are officially in the book of Life ..and on what page # does your name appear?
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Campfire Tracker
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That is not the issue. Satan is the issue. Its the issue with you because satan has you. If it werent that, it would be something else.
Like a lieberal, you can see imperfection in anything. You find thatbwhich you seek. The imperfections and contradictions are there for anyone to see. The problems were recognized a long time ago, and the reason why the Gnostics demoted the God of the bible to a lower status, to that of a local godling, an evil demiurge.
Last edited by DBT; 07/10/19.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Jan 2016
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Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,724 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2004
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The Israelis were always to offer peace, did not torture their POWs, and did not feed their children to the fire, were to accept those who wished to join them, and you don't see any difference. How tightly we must close our eyes. Again, the issue is not with what the people of the time thought or how they behaved, but the morality and actions attributed to God. Is it merciful to have a man stoned to death for gathering sticks on a Sabbath? Is it an example of good morality? By our own standards, I'd point out that it is neither merciful or moral to kill someone for such reason. What standards do you have and where can I find them recorded? You can find them in the new testament, I have quoted verses that refer to God in terms of love and descriptions of the nature of love. Descriptions that contradict the actions of God as described in OT. So, your interpretation of love is different from His. So is your idea of good, evil, right, wrong, life and death. Whats new? Oh, i get it. He better toe your line. Good luck, butter cup. Im sure for you, Satan will measure up. It's not my interpretation of love I am talking about, but what the bible itself describes...did you miss the quotes I posted?
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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That is not the issue. Satan is the issue. Its the issue with you because satan has you. If it werent that, it would be something else.
Like a lieberal, you can see imperfection in anything. You find thatbwhich you seek. The imperfections and contradictions are there for anyone to see. The problems were recognized a long time ago, and the reason why the Gnostics demoted the God of the bible to a lower status, to that of a local godling, an evil demiurge. So, you havent the mental capacity to understand how the Creator of you and the universe just may have a higher understanding than you. You prove His point.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Posts: 6,724 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Putting the question out to all skeptics. What is your moral code and where can I find d it. We can't make moral judgments without a moral code?
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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That is not the issue. Satan is the issue. Its the issue with you because satan has you. If it werent that, it would be something else.
Like a lieberal, you can see imperfection in anything. You find thatbwhich you seek. The imperfections and contradictions are there for anyone to see. The problems were recognized a long time ago, and the reason why the Gnostics demoted the God of the bible to a lower status, to that of a local godling, an evil demiurge. So, you havent the mental capacity to understand how the Creator of you and the universe just may have a higher understanding than you. You prove His point. If it has come down to slagging off at the poster, I suggest that you either read your bible, or improve your ability to comprehend what is there right before your eyes where verses describe the attributes of love and the verses that clearly contradict the given descriptions.
Last edited by DBT; 07/10/19.
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Campfire Regular
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The Israelis were always to offer peace, did not torture their POWs, and did not feed their children to the fire, were to accept those who wished to join them, and you don't see any difference. How tightly we must close our eyes. Again, the issue is not with what the people of the time thought or how they behaved, but the morality and actions attributed to God. Is it merciful to have a man stoned to death for gathering sticks on a Sabbath? Is it an example of good morality? By our own standards, I'd point out that it is neither merciful or moral to kill someone for such reason. What standards do you have and where can I find them recorded? You can find them in the new testament, I have quoted verses that refer to God in terms of love and descriptions of the nature of love. Descriptions that contradict the actions of God as described in OT. So do you believe that Jesus existed as a man of history and as the son of God and that His teachings are accurately recorded and preserved and that they are representative of the will of His Father God?
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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The Israelis were always to offer peace, did not torture their POWs, and did not feed their children to the fire, were to accept those who wished to join them, and you don't see any difference. How tightly we must close our eyes. Again, the issue is not with what the people of the time thought or how they behaved, but the morality and actions attributed to God. Is it merciful to have a man stoned to death for gathering sticks on a Sabbath? Is it an example of good morality? By our own standards, I'd point out that it is neither merciful or moral to kill someone for such reason. What standards do you have and where can I find them recorded? You can find them in the new testament, I have quoted verses that refer to God in terms of love and descriptions of the nature of love. Descriptions that contradict the actions of God as described in OT. So do you believe that Jesus existed as a man of history and as the son of God and that His teachings are accurately recorded and preserved and that they are representative of the will of His Father God? It doesn't matter what I happen to believe or don't believe, the issue is about what the bible itself says about the attributes of love and God on the one hand, but also describes the opposite in terms of the attitude and behaviour of God. Which is clearly a contradiction by the very terms that are defined and given in the bible.
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You cannot use Jesus words as standard of measure unless we understand that they are the words of Jesus. Either you accept Jesus Words and the OT record both as reliable accounts or you have no case at all to discern. You can't say you believe in Jesus moral standard if you don't even believe in Jesus or His words.
If you believe in neither testament than what is your moral standard that we are going to use to judge?
Last edited by Thunderstick; 07/10/19.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 96,081 Likes: 19 |
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,369
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I have told what I believe about moral standards and their source. Now it your turn. It's pointless to have a moral discussion without both parties identifying their moral code. This is intended to be a fair exchange right?
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Campfire Tracker
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You cannot use Jesus words as standard of measure unless we understand that they are the words of Jesus. Either you accept Jesus Words and the OT record both as reliable accounts or you have no case at all to discern. You can't say you believe in Jesus moral standard if you don't even believe in Jesus or His words.
If you believe in neither testament than what is your moral standard that we are going to use to judge? The words we have are not the words of Jesus. What we have is the words of Authors writing under the names of Mark, Luke, Matthew, Pauls' letters, etc....and the words quite obviously say what they say and mean what they mean. One more time; God is love. - 1 John 4:8 1 Corinthians 13; Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.'' 1 John 4:7-8; Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. Now, once again - these are not my words, they are not my definitions. It has nothing to do with me. Nor are these the words of Jesus. The words are written decades after the death of Jesus the charismatic Rabbi upon whom the legend was built.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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You aint seen nothin yet.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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