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''Ye shall know them by their fruits. ... By their fruits you will know them'' - God ordering the massacre of women and children is a cruel and vicious act, ordering the killing of a man gathering sticks on a Sabbath is a cruel and unjust act.....behaviour that is not related to the given descriptions of a God of Love.

'Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.' " 1 Samuel 15:3

"Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us / He who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks." Psalm 137

“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)


God "visits the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children's children to the third and fourth generation." Exodus 34:7

Cruel and unusual punishments for those guilty of no crime but the so called sins of their ancestors.

The OT does not describe a God of Love;

"God is love." - 1 John 4:8

1 Corinthians 13; Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.''

Not so. I am doing nothing more than pointing out what the bible says in terms of a God of Love and showing verses that contradict everything attributed to this 'God of Love' instead of 'love is kind' we are told that God curses generations for the sins of the ancestors. Instead of ''Love keeps no record of wrongs'' we have original sin, the whole world cursed for the naive action of one man, Adam. And that's just the start of the absurdity of the wholly contradictory collection of books we call the bible.

Not that it's just the bible that has problems The Quran is even worse. A sizable portion of the Quran is devoted to how to subjugate, kill or mistreat non believers in various ways. Mohammad the prophet was a killer, raider of caravans, a war lord, etc.

That's religion.

As for contradictions;


Identifying Contradictions
''Most people find it difficult to identify contradictions in an explicit way, but it is important to learn to do so. Here is an explicit definition of a contradiction together with the proper method for identifying one.

Contradiction
Def.: To be logically committed to the assertion of some statement, S, and its denial, not-S, at the same time.
ID.: Identify the statement that being both asserted and denied.
To see how to identify contradictions properly, consider the following conversational example.

Mrs. Beeble: You have been absent from class 11 times this month. You fail. Goodbye.
Butch: What? That's impossible! The class only meets twice a week.
Mrs. Beeble: True, but you have missed it 11 times nevertheless.
Butch: That doesn't make any sense. You can't be absent from a class on days that it doesn't meet.
Mrs. Beeble: You're saying you weren't absent on those days?
Butch: That's right..
Mrs. Beeble: So you were here?
Butch: No!
Mrs. Beeble: You are wasting my time. If you weren't here, then you were absent. Goodbye''

I'll repeat, defying God's command was not considered trivial in those days. And does anyone else think OT writers used literary devices such as allegory to get the point of their moral teachings across to the masses?

It doesn't matter what was or is considered be trivial or deadly serious, this issue purely and simply compares descriptions that the bible itself gives on the nature of God. The problem being that there are two opposing descriptions; one version is that of a god of love, merciful, forgiving not keeping a record of wrongs...the other we are told of a vindictive god, punishing four generations for the sins of the parents, the death penalty for minor transgressions, etc.

This has absolutely nothing to do with what you or I consider to be trivial, what your or my code of ethics happens to be. This is nothing more than what the bible itself describes.

"God is love." - 1 John 4:8 1 Corinthians 13; Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.'

In opposition to.

so YHWH will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nothing; (Deut 28:63)

I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear comes. (Proverbs 1:26)


"And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? Or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? Have not I the Lord?" Exodus 4:11

''The Lord is a man of war'' Exodus 15:3.

"The Lord shall go forth as a mighty man, He shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: He shall cry, yea roar; He shall prevail against His enemies". Isaiah 42:13

TF49 not only contradicts other christians , he is also one of those self defeating types that will contradict himself.
he's known for declaring that "It does not matter what YOU think or believe".

yet will follow up with irrelevant questions like ..


then this...



I've asked how a Christian can know for certain what God actually thinks of them, but none can answer.

So for something they deem paramount, they actually don't have the slightest clue about.
Essentially they are clutching around in the dark..but like to think of themselves as the 'light bearers of truth'

DBT,

Oy vey! We showed how this stuff was not irreconcilable some posts back. Apples and oranges. The OT gives the law, and what happens if you don't follow it. The man with the sticks refused to follow the law and got the prescribed (therefore just) punishment. People of the time would have understood that, defy the King at your peril. Still true.

The NT is about redemption and forgiveness, what happens when you truly repent. Mary Magdelene sinned grievously and was due for stoning. She truly repented and Jesus forgave her in his love and mercy. Also a major lesson of the prodigal son story (though there are more in that parable).

The sabbath and all the Mosaic laws of the OT were shadows pointing to the coming of Jesus (New Testament). The 4th commandment (the sabbath one) was a labor law back in those days. Sin was under the authority of death.

Jesus replaced the law as our authority. The coming of Christ cancelled all 613 laws (not just the Big Ten) when they were all nailed to the cross. We are no longer judged and put to death in regard to a sabbath day, weekly, monthly, or yearly celebration, or for eating such and such, etc.

Jesus fulfilled the laws of sin and death, and now we have rest and eternal life in Him. All the OT signs (keeping the sabbath, circumcision,,,,,) have been replaced with Jesus. The sabbath is about resting in Jesus because of his finished work.

So did this story literally true, or just an Aesop's fable?

Huh.....Thunderstick says you are wrong the the Big 10 were not cancelled.....

Another contradiction between Christians.....

No you didn't. Your claims are not consistent with a timeless, unchanging god.

So, youre saying if mere humans interpret some things differently in the book composed by the all knowing Creator, there is no Creator?

It couldnt be that nuances in the Bible story are open to interpretation but the basic theme is correct in that all dont have to agree perfectly to be saved by being believers as He said?

You really do go overboard in stretching things to cover the board in your eye which He told us about.

I use Moble 1 and change the oil every 6,000 miles. Does that mean it wont get me to the lake and back?

Matthew 22:36-40 is true and applicable to believers in this age. The OT Law has not gone away and is ... in my opinion and in the opinion of many others .... still applicable to those who ignore and rebel against the greatest commandment.

There is no contradiction at all in this.

But, the skeptics here do not see nor understand this. Seems they cannot understand it.

The reason? They live in the darkness and rebel against their judgment based on a biblical standard. They want to be judged..... if there even is a judgment.... by their own internal standard. Nothing unusual here....very common....

So, to keep heads spinning and hearts a flutter.... what is difference between the stick collector guy busted for ignoring God and Rahab?

Good Lord! It is even worse than I thought. Some of you guys just flunked Bible studies.

"Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us / He who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks." Psalm 137

It is true that Christ taught a better way...but there lays one of the contradictions. Do not tell me that it isn’t there...

For anything to be considered contradictory implies a standard of truth.

Life lived without God is the ultimate contradiction.

If you're an atheist, why do you care? You try so hard to prove our God doesn't exist. So far, you haven't.

Well, you don’t understand. Here is a greatly condensed interpretation of Psalm 137...special focus on the “happy” verse...... not mine, but one that is credible.

Some think this is both a lament and prophecy..... against Babylon..... lament as the Jews were in captivity and a prophecy about the future fall of “Babylon.”

“Babylon” was indeed warlike and victimized people’s all around. It was much hated. It was overthrown and the destruction was “near total.”

Those that destroyed Babylon were indeed happy in delivering that defeat.

So, what is your issue with God here?

No issue with God. Just with those who claim the only place to find him is in the Christian Bible. And claim there are no problems with what was written in the Bible.

You have yet to present any good evidence for you alleged God. Until such time there's no reason for me to accept you excuse of a nuisance god.

Ok, one issue at a time....in the Bible, are there any examples of someone “finding God”..... or “experiencing Jesus” ..... without the Bible?

What about all those who don't use the Christian Bible?

For every Christian in the world there are two who are not.