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Dogs seem to thrive on cat chit pretty well.

It may be likely that our dogs eat healthier than most of us do.

I've talked to my wife, she has a vet appointment for the two whippets scheduled for Monday anyway and will ask about this study.

I have a few concerns with it after reading through the FDA info:

So, now soybeans are a "grain"????:

"product labels were examined to determine whether the product was grain-free (did not contain corn, soy, wheat, rice, barley or other grains), and whether the products contained peas, other lentils including chickpeas and beans, or potatoes (including sweet potatoes)."

Mean weight of dogs was nearly 68 lbs with a spread from 4-212,

Table 1: Mean Age and Weight - DCM Cases in Dogs Reported to FDA-CVM
Dogs Mean Range
Age (years) 6.6 0.4-16
Weight (lbs) 67.8 4-212

but here's the kicker, the dogs with the highest occurrence on the list are all larger breeds:



so, the next question I have because I didn't see in in the white paper (did I miss it?) , how many of these dogs exhibited the typical American tendency towards obesity? Which would push that mean weight up.

So, the study in my mind raises a lot of questions, as a good study might. I'm not looking at it as conclusive, but have asked my wife to ask the vet about their knowledge or lack thereof in regards to the study.

Our 19 year old, 24 lb whippet (of which there we two cases or so noted in the paper) just ran 100 yds in 7.58 seconds (about 27 mph) and the 5 year old, 40 lb boy dog ran it in 7.13 seconds (nearly 29 mph). Neither of them seem unhealthy by most standards. So perhaps what we're doing is working fine for them?

Good luck and good health to everyone's dogs out there in Campfire land.

Geno

Tag

When I first learned of this two weeks ago, I asked a good friend whose wife trains and competes agility dogs to ask what her feelings were. Her comments follow:

“Hi Ted,

Here is my two cents on the dog food controversy. One, DCM has a very high genetic predisposition that is unrelated to diet and another genetic risk associated with taurine deficiency. It is unclear how the genetic risk factors play into this. The data is still pretty unclear about what the cause is, but there may be an increased risk associated with grain free foods, and those that contain legumes (particularly peas and lentils) and/or potatoes (white or sweet).
This is not particularly helpful at the moment. A lot of dry foods can contain these ingredients, and there is no indication what % by dry weight of these ingredients could be problematic. It is entirely possible that these ingredients are not the issue, but just correlate with some other ingredient or process that is. I feed Fromm, which also made the list, so I share your concern. However, so far there are some 560 dogs total reported, and even though cases have spiked in the last 18 months, that is a REALLY low risk given the number of dogs eating these foods. It is worth noting that these tend to be higher end dog foods, and those fed by individuals paying attention to their dogs - thus there may be an over reporting bias here - we are the folks who take our dogs to the vet. Personally? I don’t think that I will change what my older guys are eating just yet. If you have any concerns, I highly recommend looking at this web site: Dog Food Reviews and Ratings/Dog Food Advisor. Dog Food Advisor has very good information, including ingredients lists, for a vast array of dog foods. It makes it pretty easy to compare and search brands based on what is or is not in them”.

FWIW I have been feeding the beagle Blue Buffalo Chicken and Brown Rice Recipe (mixed with table scraps to keep things interesting) for the last 6+ years. She loves it and thrives on it. I have no plans to change her diet right now.

That's a good doggy. Shadow approves of this post.

[quote=Sakoluvr]Currently using 4health but that made a list for the possibility of heart problems. My dog is very important to me. What should I buy.[/quote

Go forth and rid the prairies of a feral horse now and then. Cut it up, freeze it, and feed it to your dog. He'll love you even more for it.

What I don't like about that is the animal protein is all sourced from meal, which is just the rendered down remains of who knows what. Probably doesn't matter as what ever they use gets cooked down into a dry product. I just like to see the primary source be actual meat and not meal.

Regardless, it should be fine. I believe in supplementing whatever you use. We eat a variety of foods and extract what we need from them. Should be the same in dogs. You don't have to do much. For protein, eggs are cheap. Three eggs a week is plenty. You can buy a large bag of frozen skinless pink salmon fillets. One a week is plenty. Dogs like vegetables. Green beans are most common, but they like a variety. This morning my lab had an egg with carrots and asparagus and a small amount of regular dog food. At supper she had some yellow squash with her dog food. We had squash for supper, so I just gave her a couple of pieces.

I can really see a difference in her behavior after she has eaten mostly real meat and vegetables. I'm just too lazy/cheap to feed her that way full time.

About meal:

https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/choosing-dog-food/about-meat-meal/


A bit more about the FDA study with some tips about changing food:

https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-...-between-diet-and-heart-disease-in-dogs/

Yeah, still doesn't make me feel any better about it. Most dog food has a protein content of around 20-25% regardless of source. Meal is a higher concentrate of protein and therefore cheaper to make the 20+% protein final product. In the end though, it all gets cooked down into a dry product and probably doesn't matter. I just prefer they start with meat instead of powder.

I think dogs do better on wild food but most can not afford it.

FWIW, my daughter works for a pet food company as a nutritionist / formulator. I asked her about this, and her take is that there is something going on, we do not really understand what and how, but for now, better safe than sorry.

After she got out of grad school, she took "her" dog to live with her, and she continues to feed her Costco's Kirkland Lamb and Rice, although she is now switching over to the Senior formula (the bitch is now 11 1/2, but still acts like a puppy).

Just as a general observation, since I deal with animal feed formulations on a farm scale, there are currently large problems with several of the animal meal categories, particularly pork, chicken and some fish meals. In general, the quality of meals has gone down both in nutritional quality and in the occurrences of things like oxidation and oxidation related chemicals (think rancidity). Same thing for animal based oils (chicken fat and fish oil, in particular). Unless a manufacturer is very diligent and is proactive about ingredient quality, it's a crap shoot out there.

Don't almost all the field trial guys and breeders feed Purina Pro Plan? I fed my 10.5 year old lab Taste of the Wild his whole life and he has been healthy until his recent diagnosis with an aggressive Sarcoma form of Cancer that is going to take him too early. He has been an all star that draws raves from the vets and other hunters for his lean look, build and athleticism. My young one is on Pro Plan which is not on the list to my knowledge.

Dutch,

seems like that the larger the "economy of scale" gets in food production, human or animal, the more those problems crop up. I can't recall many million pound hamburger recalls growing up when the local shops used to grind it right there on a daily basis. Now, with it coming in large "chubs" and Costco size packages from a mega processor somewhere in Kansas, it seems to be a recurring problem.

Sure hated it when I worked in your industry to get food that didn't last because it went off quickly. Always an issue in the desert heat, even when we could keep the feed room around 75-80F.

Glad to hear your daughter has a cool job in the feed industry!

As for the dog food, boy, there are so many variables it's going to be tough sorting it out unless something glaring turns up.

Geno

I feed my Goldens a raw food diet of ground elk and antelope meat and organs in the fall, then frozen raw prey mix from Texas Tripe alternated with Ziwi Peak and Big Dog Natural, both air dried raw, for the rest of the year alternated with raw chicken backs that come frozen in a 40 lb box of 4 10 lb bags then thawed in the refrigerator before serving. No cooked kibble at all. The Ziwi Peak and the BDN are mixed with about 10% vegetables, but no grains or potatoes. On the other hand, my buddy who runs English Pointers feeds his dogs all the Purina they can eat--says he cant keep weight on them with anything else. Who knows.

I try to watch a couple web sites such as: www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary Link , and: www.dogfoodadvisor.com/ Link for any known problems, but more importantly I don't use much of it, instead feeding mine 75-90% fresh (cooked) foods and meats. And when I do use dog foods I don't purchase more than can be used in a short period of time, keep packaging long enough to track lot numbers, and never leave food out even for a short time. Dry feed spoils quickly and can be full of mold before ever opening the bag... sometimes its not how its manufactured but how its warehoused, transported and kept.

Phil

Meal almost never has any actual muscle meat in it. It's rendered tissues taken off stripped carcasses with heat and pressure, i.e., from what the human food facility cannot use (after the crap is taken that's used in potted meat for human consumption). Nothing at all like what we think of as meat.

As Billinghurst says, commercial dog food is designed to keep a dog alive without "appearing" to cause ill health in the short term. The damage it causes is, rather, done over time in the form of premature degenerative disease and death several years earlier than should have been the case.

Chicken backs are quite good, because of their bone to meat ratio, and because each one actually contains attached pieces of chicken liver and often whole kidneys.

I see it as; pay for the food you can best afford now so you may avoid paying for the dog's degenerative disease health care prematurely and for a longer duration.