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our dogs have tags. If they are wrong, I'd appreciate a warning or so. Much like I'd appreciate the cops giving kids a ticket for something wrong rather than killing em first time out.

Shoot ours, you'll deal with my wife. She packs, and is a 1000 yard shooter. Sorry they mean a lot to me and she both. Of course we do our level best to make sure they won't be harassing anything. Oh they run the cattle now and again here. But that doesn't bother the cattle or us.

I've got about a hatred for cattle anyway but I digress.....

Wild dogs are another situation. They have to be dealt with and are dealt with here.

Those that kill just to kill, well, I'd like to welcome you to a few 230 fmjs....

Jeff

I should add that I read the rest of the pages just now. Dogs will run an animal. Thats what they were bred to do. Sometimes its hard for me to keep them from doing it here. They won't do it long, and dont' do any damage to them. Just chase em a bit. its like play. Now tehre are wild dogs than chase, catch and kill, thats different totally.
Cattle. Back to that. I'd rather shoot a cow on sight. I've had them, owned them, lost lots of money on them. They continue to be a major PITA. They have created so many more problems than they solve. Of course we only own 100 acres and never had more than about 25 head so there was no way to turn a buck. But I'll never own those SOBs again.
Just a personal observation.

This has already been said on this thread, the "cat shooting" thread, and 1 or 2 other threads in the past:

Domestic dogs and cats are subsidized predators, and in many locales are the biggest source of predation (especially during the winter)--killing more wildlife (and livestock) that wild predators do. I know a district Wildlife manager here in Colorado that routinely kills domestic dogs coming from a nearby subdivision that chase bighorns on their winter range. Like he said, "if I didn't there would be no bighorns in this unit". In some areas, domestic predators are considered to be a primary factor in Endangered Species listing. In Britian, the largest mortality of songbirds comes from cats.

About 10 years ago, some surburban refugees moved into a subdivison outside of Durango that was adjacent to a cattle ranch. The refugees owned two "prize", "award winning" Golden Retreivers. Who the refugees promptly let loose every morning and where the dogs promptly ran cattle and the occasional deer on the ranch land and nearby BLM ground. After at least two warnings--at one by the La Plata Sheriffs Dept, the rancher shot both Goldens.

The refugees were of course indignant and outraged. They tried to sue--only to find out one of the oldest Colorado statutes on the books allows one to shoot dogs in those circumstances. They began to write letters to the editor of the Durango Herald complaining about the redneck-caveman mentality of locals and the behavior of shooting dogs chasing livestock and wildlife. The Herald claims to have recieved more letters to the editor than any other issue in the newpaper's long history. It ran about 100 to 1 in support of the Colorado statute.

I like to think of it as the "Ulitimate Responsibility Law"--let your dog or cat run loose?--it may die of lead poisoning......

Casey

Im sorry, But if I caught your dogs, and they had just chewed the nose and ears off of a cow, they would not get a warning, the only warning they would get, is if I missed, and that would probably not happen twice. So I guess you could consider the miss a warning, but the 2nd one will be on the money. I will however give a few dogs a 2nd chance, If I know that they are the neighbors, and they are just out roaming. But If I catch them chasing cattle or elk, well thats another story, they will not get a warning, and if they do, well, see above. I have given a few of our own hounds a dirt nap for running trash, and a few of the ranch dogs for running horses. Im not trying to start a flame, this is just how I do things, and I have no tolerance for domestic dogs running livestock. It usually starts out by just playing, then once they taste a little blood, they usually take it to far.

Toby Joe

We had two stray dogs visit our turkey farm several times during one summer a few years ago. I never found out who they belonged to after several inquiries. ( I live in a small community of less than 600 people, so there are very few mysteries) They were very nice, friendly mutts, a bitch and her grown pup. Wearing collars, with no ID or tag. I even petted them a few times before telling them to go home. They got into a barn one day, and spent the entire afternoon killing turkeys for fun. The panicked birds actually blew out one side panel of the barn when they piled up. The dogs were so tired from killing they both just laid there when my mom found them. They wagged their tails when they saw me coming with the rifle. I had to shoot the bitch six times with my puny .22 before she died. I really hated that. But I'd do it again. A few months later, I found out the owner admitted they were his to a friend. He never said a peep to me, but if he had, he would have been presented a bill of a few thousand dollars. My concience is fine, but I did not enjoy any part of it.

The last stray dog that showed up at my house, became my dog and she saw me thru my youth, I was 8 at the time and survived the passing of my father, mother, three uncles and four aunts. The hardest thing I ever did in my life was having to put her to sleep. Failed Kidneys back in 1986. No I don't like shooting dogs, and yes I would if one was running deer on my land here in CT with reluctance. Its not the dog's fault in most cases. Funny thing about a dog, once they bond to you that is it, no one or thing will stand by you like a dog. Good dogs like a good friend are hard to find. Its a sad thing when a dog is abandoned and they resort to this sort of stuff.

..and what about the pounds those dogs run off of the stock/cattle?...to a rancher, those are $$$. I don't care "how much" you think of your dogs, nor how much you despise cattle. Your dogs have no right or business on another mans property, harassing "his" property, costing him money or profit.


..this mentality simply slays me.. ...Would it be okay, in your opinion, if I dropped by and ran your Lexus up and down the hiway for awhile?..I won't be long, I won't do any damage..I just wanna' play. I hate Hondas, I owned one once.

A few of ya'll love cattle way more than I do.

I run every day normally. Doesn't do me any harm. The few seconds the "kids" run the cattle away from our vehicles or us is nothing. Hell the damn stupid cattle run much more on their own. Often away from us while we walk by them. Would you shoot us also for them running.

I suspect we are on the same page really, I'm just asking for a bit of lenience for first timers. Much like I mentioned, cops vs kids.

Cattle are not a god. They are a major PITA to me as they give me little money and only heartache. But thats just me from having been around the bovines for 40 plus years.

I"d think there should be a middle ground in here somewhere. I also know that our "kids" won't be the ones hanging on the cows nose. But to shoot em for crawling across the fence and doing what dogs do, snoop and play, well, I"m sorry for the results all the way around. A bit of decency is evidently too much to ask for these days. Of course I don't shoot every coyote on sight either, though I do most. But its fun to watch them mouse around.

I do admit this though-- our locals blame coyotes for cattle damage. I've never seen that to this date, but I"ve shot many a wild dog hanging off the cattle over the years.

And yep, if I had a Lexus(which I'd never own, I drive an 83 Nissan pickup and an F350....) you can borrow it for a bit. And I've owned more than one cow for one year. A friggin Lexus couldn't even make it down the lane to the house....

I thought the whole idea of this thread was to chat about it. Why and why not. But nope. Seems like I"m an @sshole, cause I might own a lexus and saw a cow once. Not that I've owned them for years and drive a truck like most of ya'll, just that over the years I"ve lost so much money to them and they've been such a PITA the way we had to raise them, that I dislike them. But thats an aside.

So now if we had real children, and in their youth and ignorance they came in your backyard, on purpose or by mistake, and did something-- even if its graffiti spraying(not that I"m condoning any of the above) I guess you'd shoot them first time on the spot for the damage? BTW is it legal for me to shoot your cattle when they jump the fence onto my land? It happens plenty around. We generally are decent folks, and (how does this differ from dogs?>???) call the neighbors, pen the cattle and either deliver or let them come get them. In the meantime they've cost me "DOLLARS" by fence damage, eating grass and feed, and even possibly cross breeding my livestock. I suspect I know the answer that if I shot your cow/cows or bull, I"d be in it deep.

How it can apply to one situation but not another is far from me.

Jeff

Mommy!!
LOL!

This is like trying to argue with a deaf, mute. You are never going to get anywhere. I cant believe that you are actually comparing a worthless dog that is more or less killing cattle, to a small child crawling into the wrong yard. I suppose you would set there and let a bear chew one of your legs off, just so you could give him a second chance. But, I realize that you would probably give him an ultimatum. I could hear you now, Bear, I will give you one, but if you start on the other, Im gonna have to kill you.

Sorry you are deaf and dumb, but you type well.

How is my lab, that is my only child, worthless?

A bear, hell I'll give them every chance to go the other way. Of course how can you compare a WILD bear(same as a wild dog in my books) with a TAME PET? One that has a collar, shots, micro chipped, and is totally licensed and legal?

The point I"m trying to make, is why would you shoot them when you know that they belong to someone?

Same reason I'd shoot them(a cow) when they break my fence down?

Or do you just not give a [bleep] about other animals? And Im' not talking a small child, I"m refering to teenagers.

The law allows for mistakes in humans, all of a sudden it doesn't in animals?

Remember I said I shoot wild dogs. But if they have a collar, the owner, who is the one responsible, gets a warning. Its only civil and fair, IMHO. YOur opinion, and you are welcome to that, is that they get no chance if they are after a cow(actually to be fair I think you said if they are hanging off the cow). Heck I'll reprimand my own dogs and pay you for the cow if need be. But if I don't get that chance?

IMHO my child(read dog) is much more valuable than any of the cattle we have on our place. The dog gives me much more pleasure and unconditional love. While the cattle, do, at best, break even after many hours of labor, equipment, spraying, feed, vet bills and so on.

Bottom line again, I'm only saying I"ll give the collared animals benefit of the doubt till I get to the owners, who have the responsibility anyway. If we don't get there, I"ll be regretfully shooting.

Of course your situation is different in many ways. As you mention you are way out in the middle of nowhere, and dogs really should no be roaming that far. Ours won't. But they do cross the fence after a rabbit or so now and then. If they bark at a cow on the way back over, whats the big deal?

Neither one of us is comparing true apples to apples I suspect cause you are protective of what I consider idiot cattle, yet love my dogs. And vice versa. YOu live only for the cattle and hate the dogs.
Jeff

i agree with you Jeff, that a collared pooch's owner should get a warning (if possible). My experience with that type of owner is the response "it's cruel to chain up Fluffy". I tell them it's cruel to put me in a position to have to shoot your dog. Not for peeing on the pansies, but for being a threat to wildlife, livestock, or people (especially the small ones).

If the dog is after my animals, I'll shoot first and ask questions later. The problem is dogs somehow know when their life is in danger and don't stay long enough to have a bead drawn on them.

Loose dogs are sometimes a problem here during calving time. We'll be hearing about it in less than one month.

Well, mostly those who shoot dogs are terrorists from another religious group...









































Hey, don't look at me that way - someone was bound to post this sooner or later.

Thats the most frighening thing I have ever seen.

Thats too funny....(TFF)

Iron-- I still suspect most of us are on the same page. I've done what needs to be done before.

I guess where I get off is I must live differently than others. You tell me about my dog, and I'll thank you profusely and offer to pay for any kind of damage etc.... and do my level best to make sure it doesnt' happen again. Obviously I"m not aware that its happening.

I do hear you about chaining poochy. I"m on 100 acres. Our 3 dogs sleep in the house. Mostly in the pen during the day. But then for a number of hours in the afternoon they get to stretch their legs. Often with us in and out of the house. Its very rare that they are not right out the door on the steps or in the pasture waiting for the dummy(that ought to leave some more slander shots wide open.....). I don't see that they do much of anything, but now and again they'll be off roaming while we are taking em for a walk. Its inevitable that they will run by the cows at times. I have a shock collar thats been used, they all mostly can handle the fact to leave em alone, unless they are around our fence, vehicles or house. Then they run them off with my appreciation. Ever try to mow the yard after the cows have broken the gate down and stomped the yard to hell and back after a rain....?

Anyway I have a certain view of things, responsibilities that should be even and so on. For one creature to be singled out just because they are there, is no reason IMHO. Much like I don't shoot the cows when they break in the fence. Or scratch the truck etc....though my wife has been tempted.....

At least we are again, same book, just different page or paragraph or chapter, depending... I just happen to love my only "kids".

Jeff

Jeff,

We had this discussion before, and I don't think anyone is claiming to maliciously kill dogs. Running cows ain't good for the cows--but if they're your cows you can do anything you want with them. Although I've been pretty hot under the collar a few times I've shot dogs, I always understand the significance of killing anything--period. I don't do it lightly. And I think most others feel the same. As you know, I have two surrogate kids-Aussies, but I did teach them not to "chase" or herd anything without my say-so. Well, except for squirrels, oh, and coons that raid my garden (I just gotta teach my male Aussie not to bury the dang coon in the garden after he's snuffed 'em ).

Casey

Wait until that kitty gets out the longe range weapons...

Casey

Casey

Yeah, I was starting to recall this as round #2.

Can't stop the squirrels and coons eh? Hell they have to have some fun too.

I guess I haven't seen ours run cows to where it will matter. 50-100 feet. No big deal. I"ve seen em tail up and take off for the other south pasture for no reason at all, other than stupidity...And then there is the pasture rotation run... open the gate and the fools run helter skelter all over, burning more calories than they eat, just to see if something is possibly better...

The real question now though, if kitty gets out the long range weapons, is it ethical for kitty to shoot dogs at long range? And do you think kitty should shoot at long range? Dogs or no dogs? Or are dogs off limits to long range but mice are considered varmints so its ok?

Jeff

BTW that already looks like an Accuracy International precision bolt gun, circa maybe 300 win mag..

You're right there. The discussion would flow better over a few beers, I mean over a real campfire!

On another note, I just got home..... Down the gravel road. Where I had to honk the horn cause the bovines where in the road instead of sleeping in the pasture. They ran off. And I have bovine #2 all over my truck and tires becaues they were so nice to poop all over the road. Least my dog goes out of the way to his corner....

A real campfire? That sounds like a great idea. I nees some time out side with people who don't consider spongebob and scoobeydoo the two most important things in life.