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Joined: Aug 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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What the hell are you talking about? If you are going to change the form of an animal, there has to be a change or mutation early in the formation of that animal while the body plan is being formed. And when that occurs, it is always fatal.
False assumption. Certainly there are some mutations that can be fatal...absolutely. But how is it you don't notice obvious mutations in existing living animals? If someone has a mutation that causes them not go grow lungs; that's fatal. If someone has a mutation that caused them to have 6 fingers...Not fatal. we all know perfectly well there's nothing wrong with a 6 toed cat. they can do very well. what we're into, seems like, is that for the part of the "chaos" that surrounds us, there's a theory to explain a piece of it. and that theory is called evolution. there's observations, studies, and extrapolations that have occurred that have allowed us to come with terms with what is happening to the natural environment and it's segments or components over a period of time. apparently the dinosaurs lost their ability to adapt for whatever reason. so, it was requiring a re-start. dinasours couldn't get into space for whatever reason. maybe too slow & clumsy because they were cold-blooded. they did provide solutions to a lot of other challenges though. locomotion, walking on their hind feet, eating meat, etc. etc. maybe we haven't given them proper credit for their contribution to our past development that has led us to our current successes?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,428 |
What the hell are you talking about? If you are going to change the form of an animal, there has to be a change or mutation early in the formation of that animal while the body plan is being formed. And when that occurs, it is always fatal.
False assumption. Certainly there are some mutations that can be fatal...absolutely. But how is it you don't notice obvious mutations in existing living animals? If someone has a mutation that causes them not go grow lungs; that's fatal. If someone has a mutation that caused them to have 6 fingers...Not fatal. Six fingers isn’t really significant. I knew a gal with six fingers. It was significant.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,667 |
Six fingers isn’t really significant. That's not a valid argument...any mutation is a mutation. Some mutations can eventually lead to the extinction of a species...and there are many examples of that. But some end up benefiting, and then comes another mutation...In a few thousand years, you have a new species. In the case of he London subway mosquito, it took less than a century.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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would we be better off if things were happening at a bit faster rate, or are things about right?
we know the earth has been through at least four re-designs in the past? anyone agree?
that is, before the dinasours were a few, then that crowd, and now us as the dominants.
wonder what the next re-design will look like? i mean, evolution is evolution, right? A great case of "observational" evolution (as in, evolution humanity has observed directly), is the case of the Mosquito's in the London subway. They first went down there in the 1860's. Today, those mosquitos are a completely different species (verifyable). We have samples of what they were...We have what they are. We have DNA from both, we can SEE the path of mutations that led to a different species. The new species looks different, has some different biology... And have changes so much, that the two can no longer interbreed. Humanity has directly observed evolution. Try again. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_mosquito. It is found in the London Underground railway system as its name suggests, but has a worldwide distribution and long predates the existence of the London Underground.[1] It was first described as a distinct species from Egyptian specimens by the biologist Peter Forsskål (1732–1763).[2] He named this mosquito Culex molestus due to its voracious biting, but later biologists renamed it Culex pipiens f. molestus because there were no morphological differences between it and Culex pipiens.[2] Notably, this mosquito assaulted Londoners sleeping in the Underground during the Blitz,[3] although similar populations were long known.[1]
A study from 2004 analyzing DNA microsatellites suggested that Culex molestus is likely a distinct species from Culex pipiens.[1] However, a more recent paper from 2012 argues that it is more accurately 'a physiological and ecological variant of Cx. pipiens ' and should not be considered a distinct species.[4]
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,667 |
I knew a gal with six fingers. It was significant. I don't care who you are, that's funny right there.
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,667 |
would we be better off if things were happening at a bit faster rate, or are things about right?
we know the earth has been through at least four re-designs in the past? anyone agree?
that is, before the dinasours were a few, then that crowd, and now us as the dominants.
wonder what the next re-design will look like? i mean, evolution is evolution, right? A great case of "observational" evolution (as in, evolution humanity has observed directly), is the case of the Mosquito's in the London subway. They first went down there in the 1860's. Today, those mosquitos are a completely different species (verifyable). We have samples of what they were...We have what they are. We have DNA from both, we can SEE the path of mutations that led to a different species. The new species looks different, has some different biology... And have changes so much, that the two can no longer interbreed. Humanity has directly observed evolution. Try again. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_mosquito. It is found in the London Underground railway system as its name suggests, but has a worldwide distribution and long predates the existence of the London Underground.[1] It was first described as a distinct species from Egyptian specimens by the biologist Peter Forsskål (1732–1763).[2] He named this mosquito Culex molestus due to its voracious biting, but later biologists renamed it Culex pipiens f. molestus because there were no morphological differences between it and Culex pipiens.[2] Notably, this mosquito assaulted Londoners sleeping in the Underground during the Blitz,[3] although similar populations were long known.[1]
A study from 2004 analyzing DNA microsatellites suggested that Culex molestus is likely a distinct species from Culex pipiens.[1] However, a more recent paper from 2012 argues that it is more accurately 'a physiological and ecological variant of Cx. pipiens ' and should not be considered a distinct species.[4]Perhaps my example is a bit out of date. I read about it a good decade ago.
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,926 Likes: 2 |
Where did all the salt water fish come from? Maybe they adapted to salt water ....
That is the very definition of evolution. One species adapting to a changing environment, and thus becoming a.new species. As is human populations changing skin tone in response to Vit D deficiencie.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,428 |
Here's an example of evolution. Bacteria populations developing resistance to antibiotics. No, they did not turn into salt water fish....
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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People with six fingers are aliens.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Here's an example of evolution. Bacteria populations developing resistance to antibiotics. No, they did not turn into salt water fish.... That’s natural selection, or probably more accurately...selective breeding, which no one denies.
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 26,337 |
Where did all the salt water fish come from? Maybe they adapted to salt water ....
That is the very definition of evolution. One species adapting to a changing environment, and thus becoming a.new species. As is human populations changing skin tone in response to Vit D deficiencie. as a conscious Naked Ape, (if you will), i would just hate it if natural evolution ran against our most excellent design. but if change happens naturally, we could be at risk of changing.
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Joined: May 2003
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 31,273 Likes: 7 |
But Joe Bob, natural selection (more properly natural adaptation) is the short term result. The long term is evolution.
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
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Joined: Sep 2010
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2010
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Here's an example of evolution. Bacteria populations developing resistance to antibiotics. No, they did not turn into salt water fish.... That’s natural selection, or probably more accurately...selective breeding, which no one denies. No, it is not selective breeding. An example of selective breeding would be humans developing food crops or dog breeds.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
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Here's an example of evolution. Bacteria populations developing resistance to antibiotics. No, they did not turn into salt water fish.... That’s natural selection, or probably more accurately...selective breeding, which no one denies. Natural selection IS A KEY COMPONENT OF EVOLUTION! If adaptation is successful across tens of thousands of generations, it becomes evolution; because adaptation never stops. Its a mathematical constant...eventually you'll get to another species...or the species will die off. If you accept adaptation, you have to accept evolution because it's a mathematical certainty over time. Definition: nat·u·ral se·lec·tion /ˈnaCH(ə)rəl səˈlekSHən/ nounBiology noun: natural selection the process whereby organisms better adapted to their environment tend to survive and produce more offspring. The theory of its action was first fully expounded by Charles Darwin and is now believed to be the main process that brings about evolution.
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Joined: Sep 2010
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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And? Further, mutations would need to occur very early in the life of an organism to change the form of the organism and those types of mutations are ALWAYS fatal in the wild.
What the hell are you talking about? The damned mutation is expressed in the offspring. What the hell are you talking about? If you are going to change the form of an animal, there has to be a change or mutation early in the formation of that animal while the body plan is being formed. And when that occurs, it is always fatal. You seem to want to have it both ways. You don’t want to argue that higher animals developed from lower organisms which would have at some point, necessitated huge changes in body plans, while ridiculing anyone who questions evolution as a whole. If you want to have Evolution, you’ve got to have the whole damned thing. If you don’t, then you’re arguing some outside agency or force or something we don’t understand and you really have no right to ridicule someone who questions the theory as a whole. Dude, you really don't know jack about biology. The mutation is expressed in the offspring. The mutation is in the DNA passed from the parent(s). Elementary biology.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 26,337 |
Here's an example of evolution. Bacteria populations developing resistance to antibiotics. No, they did not turn into salt water fish.... That’s natural selection, or probably more accurately...selective breeding, which no one denies. No, it is not selective breeding. An example of selective breeding would be humans developing food crops or dog breeds. it's easy to understand that humans are chopping off the heads & tails of the conundrum of life on earth, and how it has advanced after it's early arrival. speaking of dogs, we are in the dogdaze of summer. so tell all the little brown dogs ya see to be on the lookout for a cool place to escape the heat. as an aside, remarkably the advancement in the market place of dog-crosses of various established "breeds" is quite profound & successful. my theory, or definition is: selective breeding is what humans do. natural selection is what nature does. btw, nature is a bitch, and she is led by lileth, adams first wife. but back to the storyline. please carry on.
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,667 |
And? Further, mutations would need to occur very early in the life of an organism to change the form of the organism and those types of mutations are ALWAYS fatal in the wild.
What the hell are you talking about? The damned mutation is expressed in the offspring. What the hell are you talking about? If you are going to change the form of an animal, there has to be a change or mutation early in the formation of that animal while the body plan is being formed. And when that occurs, it is always fatal. You seem to want to have it both ways. You don’t want to argue that higher animals developed from lower organisms which would have at some point, necessitated huge changes in body plans, while ridiculing anyone who questions evolution as a whole. If you want to have Evolution, you’ve got to have the whole damned thing. If you don’t, then you’re arguing some outside agency or force or something we don’t understand and you really have no right to ridicule someone who questions the theory as a whole. Dude, you really don't know jack about biology. The mutation is expressed in the offspring. The mutation is in the DNA passed from the parent(s). Elementary biology. He doesn't get that he is describing evolution. I think is problem is time scale.
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Posts: 24,667 |
Biblical Creationism is a fundamental misunderstanding of the purpose of religion. "The Bible teaches us how to go to heaven, not how the heaven's go" Galileo.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Some other guy says, "My wife must be evolving. Every month she mutates into a demon!"
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
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Campfire Outfitter
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Here's an example of evolution. Bacteria populations developing resistance to antibiotics. No, they did not turn into salt water fish.... That’s natural selection, or probably more accurately...selective breeding, which no one denies. No, it is not selective breeding. An example of selective breeding would be humans developing food crops or dog breeds. Oh, it’s selective breeding alright. Maybe not intentional selective breeding but it ain’t natural either. It’s human directed and human caused.
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