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Campfire Outfitter
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It's real simple.
They're a different species of animal.
Just like e. coli can be slightly different from each other.
And elephants ain't turnin into e. coli, and e. coli ain't turnin into elephants.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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They were created as separate species 6,000 and some years ago. God made them look somewhat alike just to fool you. Like fossils, expanding universe, radioactive decay dating, etc. It's a test. He made that stuff just to separate true believers, the chosen people, from the wicked and disobedient unbelievers (guess where they'll end up). Being sarcastic but prove me wrong.
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Which explains a lot.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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It's real simple.
They're a different species of animal.
Just like e. coli can be slightly different from each other.
And elephants ain't turnin into e. coli, and e. coli ain't turnin into elephants. E. coli is a modern day single cell organism. The single cell organisms from which we (and our close cousins the elephants) evolved lived billions of years ago.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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They were created as separate species 6,000 and some years ago. God made them look somewhat alike just to fool you. Like fossils, expanding universe, radioactive decay dating, etc. It's a test. He made that stuff just to separate true believers, the chosen people, from the wicked and disobedient (guess where they'll end up). Being sarcastic but prove me wrong. How about a serious answer to the question. What do you really believe and why?
Last edited by antelope_sniper; 07/27/19.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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What about Giant Pandas and Grizzly Bears? Related?
If not related, does that mean they could only have been related if macro evolution were possible, but it's not, so they're not?
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Campfire Outfitter
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I believe evolution fits right in with biblical prophecies.
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Campfire Outfitter
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E. coli is a modern day single cell organism. Nope. Billions of years old. Learned that right here in this thread.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I believe evolution fits right in with biblical prophecies.
In what way?
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
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Campfire Sage
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They're both in the family Ursidae. It's just that they've been apart too long for hybridization to be possible.
Are you clear on the point that when you accept that species are related, you're saying they had a common ancestor? That means evolution happened, resulting in speciation, whether they can reproduce together any longer or not.
Which two of these three are related in your reckoning: 1) Wolves 2) Foxes 3) Tarantellas?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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They're both in the family Ursidae. It's just that they've been apart too long for hybridization to be possible.
Are you clear on the point that when you accept that species are related, you're saying they had a common ancestor? That means evolution happened, resulting in speciation.
Which two of these three are related in your reckoning: 1) Wolves 2) Foxes 3) Tarantellas?
Soon Fubarski will admit God Created evolution and we can move on....
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Outfitter
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They're both in the family Ursidae. They been named by "scientists". That don't mean they're in a "family", or anything else. Just a human interpretation of perceived similarities.
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Campfire Sage
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They're both in the family Ursidae. They been named by "scientists". That don't mean they're in a "family", or anything else. Just a human interpretation of perceived similarities. But if a scientist were, somehow, able to make it happen with artificial insemination then you'd accept they were related? What about llamas and camels? In a lab, they can be assisted into hybridization. That makes them related, right? So what does related mean in that context, exactly? They're from two separate continents.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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E. coli is a modern day single cell organism. Nope. Billions of years old. Learned that right here in this thread. No. You are intentionally misrepresenting my position: Current indications are life began surprisingly quickly after the formation of the earth.
As for e.coli, I have no expectation that it was around 4 billion years ago. It's a common bacteria we are all familiar with so I used it's rates of reproduction as a proxy for bacteria's in general.
All total, there's over 700 strains of e.coli, with greater genetic differences then there is between humans and c-h-impanzee's. The strains best known for killing people, E. coli O157:H7, was only identified in 1982. So e.coli isn't "still just ecoli", it continues to evolve and change as well. Since you are back to the subject of e.coli, are the other members of the genus Escherichia the results of common descent, or special creation. Let me refresh your mind with a partial list: E. albertii E. fergusonii E. hermannii E. marmotae[2] E. vulneris E.albertii wasn't identified until 2003. What do you believe in this respect and why?
Last edited by antelope_sniper; 07/27/19.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Nov 2011
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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They're both in the family Ursidae. They been named by "scientists". That don't mean they're in a "family", or anything else. Just a human interpretation of perceived similarities. We can measure those similarities and difference,through DNA sequencing. This moves the discussion from "perceptions" to measurements.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Sep 2010
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Hey just because two things is related don't mean they come from a common ancestor! Ohhh wait a minute! It does! Holy mackerel! Wowza!
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
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Campfire Sage
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Hey just because two things is related don't mean they come from a common ancestor! Ohhh wait a minute! It does! Holy mackerel! Wowza! LOL. Before he said African and Indian elephants weren't related. In other words, both having been placed by zoologists in the family elephantidae was just a naming trick to fool us into thinking they were related, just because they look sort of alike. Then when I showed him that they actually have been hybridized, he accepted that they were related, but won't describe what exactly related means in that context. As you say, it means they have a common ancestor. In other words, they are two species that were once a single species.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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If there is no room for evolution how come we have to "reformulate" flu vaccine every year?
Sorry if this was covered, think I'd need time in the rubber room if I tried to read all of this thread.
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Which explains a lot.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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African elephants can't breed with Asian elephants. Different species, at the present time. But at one time in the past, they weren't different? In other words, they were the same species once, but no longer?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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So, still not settled? I've read through most of this and didn't see anything about plate tectonics. For those who believe in a literal interpretation of the Good Book, do they believe in plate tectonics? And therefor continental drift? India crashing into Asia? Africa and South America separating? Hot spots in the ridges in the middle of the ocean (Think Hawai'i and Iceland)? All that stuff happened in just a coupla thousand years? If those folks are non-believers in plate techtonics, how do they explain "The Ring of Fire" in the Pacific? The Rift Valley in Africa? Maybe a good one to explore is Pinnacles National Park. Seems parts of it used to be down near Lancaster CA, 195 miles or so south of where they are located today? Along the San Andreas Fault. Which they have pretty good measurements for the last few years about the rate of movement. Did the pinnacles move nearly 200 miles in just 6000 years or so? https://www.nps.gov/pinn/learn/nature/geology.htmLocated near the San Andreas Fault along the boundary of the Pacific Plate and the North American Plate, is an excellent example of tectonic plate movement. The Pinnacles Rocks are believed to be part of the Pinnacles-Neenach Volcanic Field that occurred 23 million years ago near present-day Lancaster, California, some 195 miles (314 km) southeast. The giant San Andreas Fault split the volcano and the Pacific Plate crept north, carrying the Pinnacles. The work of water and wind on these erodible volcanic rocks has formed the unusual rock structures seen today. Today, these rocks give many species of plants and animals a place to call home. Of course, I suppose the fault could have moved much quicker in the past, and all this means one must believe they can tell that the rocks there came from the same volcanic source as the ones down south in Lancaster (there's the influence of those darn scientists again, playing with rocks and determining their chemical makeup and such) . Maybe the fault slowed down recently to the levels it seems to be moving today? Maybe it went really fast before the "white man" arrived with their measuring instruments? Oh, wait, seems there were some "natives" in the area during the biblical times, they don't seem to have stories of the fault really cookin' along. Maybe they just forgot to pass those stories down, after all they were savages. Or maybe they really weren't here all that time even? If we can figure out some of this plate tectonics stuff, maybe we can settle this stuff once and for all, you know, age of the Earth and all that. Critters turnin' into other critters too. Geno
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men. In it is contentment In it is death and all you seek (Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
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