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Campfire Ranger
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Perhaps not. But it has produced Triticale.
Triticale is a cross, not only of two different species, but of two separate genera. And it breeds true. As in you can use the seed of this year's crop to plant next year's.
So, that makes it an entirely new species created within the space of one century. What is possible in 100,000 centuries, in nature, with the added pressure of extinction level events opening new environments for thousands upon thousands of species. Triticale is actually sterile and has to be treated with a drug to make it fertile. the deer eat freshly emergent triticale around here pretty good.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,926 Likes: 2 |
Perhaps not. But it has produced Triticale. Which with further work becomes quadrotriticale, an excellent food for tribbles Grammar police ahead. Watch the tenses. WILL become. After all Star Trek is prophecy.  ????
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Campfire Outfitter
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I am amazed with what some state about high school science education.
I was in graduating class of 45 students. Our high school required two years of science. Every student took Earth Science in the ninth grade and Biology in the tenth. Biology included a lot of study on taxonomy, so the students understood how different species, families, and orders were related. We spent several weeks on .mendelian inheritance, so we actually understood how traits and mutations get passed along, and finally we spent time on ana6omy, so students might know what was going on inside their body.
Of course, 70% of the class had farm animals at home and participated in selective breeding programs, so we took to genetics eagerly.
Advanced students were offered Chemistry as a Junior, and Physics as a Senior.
I graduated in Podunk rural Idaho in 1974. Most people involved in agriculture understand evolution. Selective breeding of plants and animals has gone on for thousands of years. Pretty much all crops and live stock in production today are the result of carefully chosen mutations by humans for certain traits. I always thought it would be interesting to plant some of the crop seeds found in burial tomb's from thousands of years to compare to today's plants. Yes. That's micro evolution. But selective breeding of plants (using an intelligent agent and not merely random processes) has not converted barley into grapes, or even into wheat, for that matter. And selective breeding of dogs has not converted them into cats or elephants. It has given variation within a type, but that is all. No new species. So, plant and animal breeding do not prove the grander claims of evolution. Quite the opposite: they confirm that species are extremely resistant to change and vary only within the parameters of their type, even when intelligent agents try to intervene for maximum variation. The environment is not a random factor in the natural evolution of a species, rather the main driver in rewarding certain mutations. Look at isolated bird species on the Galapagos islands which evolved from same genetic base to specialize in taking advantage of various food supplies into ~20 various species.
"Life is tough, even tougher if your stupid"
John Wayne
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,926 Likes: 2 |
Perhaps not. But it has produced Triticale.
Triticale is a cross, not only of two different species, but of two separate genera. And it breeds true. As in you can use the seed of this year's crop to plant next year's.
So, that makes it an entirely new species created within the space of one century. What is possible in 100,000 centuries, in nature, with the added pressure of extinction level events opening new environments for thousands upon thousands of species. Triticale is actually sterile and has to be treated with a drug to make it fertile. Not according to University of Wisconson extension cooperative extension University of Minnisota Center for alternative plant and animal products circa 1989. Triticale is self pollinating and breeds true.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,098 Likes: 6 |
I am amazed with what some state about high school science education.
I was in graduating class of 45 students. Our high school required two years of science. Every student took Earth Science in the ninth grade and Biology in the tenth. Biology included a lot of study on taxonomy, so the students understood how different species, families, and orders were related. We spent several weeks on .mendelian inheritance, so we actually understood how traits and mutations get passed along, and finally we spent time on ana6omy, so students might know what was going on inside their body.
Of course, 70% of the class had farm animals at home and participated in selective breeding programs, so we took to genetics eagerly.
Advanced students were offered Chemistry as a Junior, and Physics as a Senior.
I graduated in Podunk rural Idaho in 1974. Most people involved in agriculture understand evolution. Selective breeding of plants and animals has gone on for thousands of years. Pretty much all crops and live stock in production today are the result of carefully chosen mutations by humans for certain traits. I always thought it would be interesting to plant some of the crop seeds found in burial tomb's from thousands of years to compare to today's plants. Yes. That's micro evolution. But selective breeding of plants (using an intelligent agent and not merely random processes) has not converted barley into grapes, or even into wheat, for that matter. And selective breeding of dogs has not converted them into cats or elephants. It has given variation within a type, but that is all. No new species. So, plant and animal breeding do not prove the grander claims of evolution. Quite the opposite: they confirm that species are extremely resistant to change and vary only within the parameters of their type, even when intelligent agents try to intervene for maximum variation. The environment is not a random factor in the natural evolution of a species, rather the main driver in rewarding certain mutations. Look at isolated bird species on the Galapagos islands which evolved from same genetic base to specialize in taking advantage of various food supplies into ~20 various species. Most of these threads on controversial topics quickly devolve. Hats off to you gentlemen and others who are having an intelligent discussion.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Sage
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Antelope Sniper already shot that video down pretty good.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Antelope Sniper already shot that video down pretty good. Yes, he is so much more intelligent than those guys. Lol
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Campfire Tracker
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It's all about evidence. However unlikely that our existence appears to be, mathematically or logically, the evidence supports evolution, not Magic, not an invisible Magician who created a universe.
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Campfire Tracker
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It's all about evidence. However unlikely that our existence appears to be, mathematically or logically, the evidence supports evolution, not Magic, not an invisible Magician who created a universe. Afraid not.
Tarquin
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It's all about evidence. However unlikely that our existence appears to be, mathematically or logically, the evidence supports evolution, not Magic, not an invisible Magician who created a universe. It’s not necessarily an either/or proposition. Pointing out the mathematical difficulties with TENS does not necessarily mean there is a God. It just means that TENS is wrong. And the circular argument of, “Well, we’re here, so evolution, even if unlikely must have worked” isn’t very convincing and isn’t very scientific.
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Campfire Ranger
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It's all about evidence. However unlikely that our existence appears to be, mathematically or logically, the evidence supports evolution, not Magic, not an invisible Magician who created a universe. It’s not necessarily an either/or proposition. Pointing out the mathematical difficulties with TENS does not necessarily mean there is a God. It just means that TENS is wrong. And the circular argument of, “Well, we’re here, so evolution, even if unlikely must have worked” isn’t very convincing and isn’t very scientific. Indeed, already.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Many people have faith in what they believe is evidence supporting the theory of evolution.
Many people have faith in what they believe is evidence supporting various theological explanations.
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Campfire Ranger
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It's all about evidence. However unlikely that our existence appears to be, mathematically or logically, the evidence supports evolution, not Magic, not an invisible Magician who created a universe. Creationist and Evolutionist use the same evidence. It is interpretation based on world view that determines what one believes. Creationists and Evolutionists use the same fossil record, sun, ocean, animals, plants and anything else scientists come up with to study.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Campfire Sage
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Antelope Sniper already shot that video down pretty good. Yes, he is so much more intelligent than those guys. Lol The quality of arguments isn't a one to one reflection of comparative IQs. Not to say AS isn't quite smart, indeed. I have no reason to believe his IQ pales much compared any of those folks. But that's not how you determine the quality of arguments.
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Campfire Tracker
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It's all about evidence. However unlikely that our existence appears to be, mathematically or logically, the evidence supports evolution, not Magic, not an invisible Magician who created a universe. It’s not necessarily an either/or proposition. Pointing out the mathematical difficulties with TENS does not necessarily mean there is a God. It just means that TENS is wrong. And the circular argument of, “Well, we’re here, so evolution, even if unlikely must have worked” isn’t very convincing and isn’t very scientific. The evidence does not paint a picture of guided evolution, therefore guided evolution is an unfounded speculation, as is the existence of a Creator. It's the theist who argues: the world appears unlikely, therefore God. If there is a Creator, it is a hidden Creator, a Creator who plays no part in creation.
Last edited by DBT; 07/30/19.
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Campfire Tracker
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It's all about evidence. However unlikely that our existence appears to be, mathematically or logically, the evidence supports evolution, not Magic, not an invisible Magician who created a universe. Creationist and Evolutionist use the same evidence. It is interpretation based on world view that determines what one believes. Creationists and Evolutionists use the same fossil record, sun, ocean, animals, plants and anything else scientists come up with to study. Creationists are creators of their own narrative, using highly creative or dismissive interpretations of the evidence in order to support a conclusion that satisfies their belief in the existence of a Creator.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Creationists are creators of their own narrative, using highly creative or dismissive interpretations of the evidence in order to support a conclusion that satisfies their belief in the existence of a Creator. Which is the same thing that people that have faith in evolution do, to reach their conclusions.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,098 Likes: 6 |
It's all about evidence. However unlikely that our existence appears to be, mathematically or logically, the evidence supports evolution, not Magic, not an invisible Magician who created a universe. Creationist and Evolutionist use the same evidence. It is interpretation based on world view that determines what one believes. Creationists and Evolutionists use the same fossil record, sun, ocean, animals, plants and anything else scientists come up with to study. So true. Most people come to these arguments with an unshakable belief, start with the conclusion, and make the evidence fit.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Tracker
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Creationists are creators of their own narrative, using highly creative or dismissive interpretations of the evidence in order to support a conclusion that satisfies their belief in the existence of a Creator. Which is the same thing that people that have faith in evolution do, to reach their conclusions. You are using the word "faith" too loosely.
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