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Joined: Jul 2006
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,829 Likes: 1 |
Gentlemen, I am a law and order type of guy. I married into a cop family. Almost all of my in laws are cops, and I respect them. I, myself, went through the hiring process/testing for the CHP California highway patrol). I respect the law......
However, my guns are mostly hand me down guns, from family, most of them now dead. They are not just weapons, but part of my heritage, my history, and my legacy.
As a free man, I will not be parted from my guns, without due process. My kids are grown, I'm an empty nester now, and i will not risk having my guns lost, destroyed, or confiscated, by anyone. To me, they are irreplaceable.
If I were roused at 5am like the victim, I too would be armed, and expecting trouble, and there would surely be trouble, because I will not comply. It would not be not be my wisest move, it would not be the best move, and it might be my last move, but it would follow like the tide follows the moon.
Do as you will, but this is something I can not accept. If pushed down this road, there will be trouble. I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country. Nathan Hale No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making some other poor dumb bastard die for his. George S. Patton
"Men must be governed by God or they will be ruled by tyrants". --- William Penn
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,086 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,086 Likes: 2 |
..... but making sure the right people do have guns and know how and when to use them. The entire post made the most sense of any on this thread but the words I quoted here sum up what needs to be done better than any.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,528 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,528 Likes: 6 |
I'm not in favor of red flag laws because they are unconstitutional, but pulling your gun on two cops is just plain stupid. Maybe the old dude was crazy.....probably thought he was Matt Dillon or something. Actually, they're probably not unconstitutional, but it will get litigated. You may want to Google "Shall Not Be Infringed".... *You* may want to google Mathews v. Eldridge, which is the basis for the constitutionality of Ex Parte Restraining Orders, and therefore, Red Flag laws, which follow the same procedure. The Supreme Kangaroos haven't directly decided the constitutionality of Red Flag laws, but every lower court decision has upheld em.
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,086 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,086 Likes: 2 |
Didn't the United States vs. Cruikshank decision of 1876 decide that the 2nd Amendment did not apply to individual states? If so, did the Heller or McDonald decision overturn the Cruikshank decision? It seems that part of the Cruikshank decision addressed whether or not the local government had the right to disarm the carpetbag and negro militia that was attempting to hold the Grant Parish courthouse against a competing claim by a local white militia. Dozens of blacks and three whites were killed in the affair. Maybe we have a constitutional historian on board.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,659 Likes: 14
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,659 Likes: 14 |
I'm not in favor of red flag laws because they are unconstitutional, but pulling your gun on two cops is just plain stupid. Maybe the old dude was crazy.....probably thought he was Matt Dillon or something. Actually, they're probably not unconstitutional, but it will get litigated. You may want to Google "Shall Not Be Infringed".... *You* may want to google Mathews v. Eldridge, which is the basis for the constitutionality of Ex Parte Restraining Orders, and therefore, Red Flag laws, which follow the same procedure. The Supreme Kangaroos haven't directly decided the constitutionality of Red Flag laws, but every lower court decision has upheld em. Because courts uphold something, doesn't make it Constitutional.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 14,178 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 14,178 Likes: 1 |
So what would stop someone’s ex from stating that they’re ex was a threat. So the cops come and take his, or hers guns!!!
Well we're Green and we're Gold, and we play better when it's cold. All us Cheese heads have our favorite superstar. We love Brett Favre.
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Joined: Oct 2009
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,528 Likes: 6 |
Because courts uphold something, doesn't make it Constitutional. Can't disagree with that, but it's important ta know what the rules actually are, when you're playin the game.
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Joined: Aug 2004
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,659 Likes: 14 |
Because courts uphold something, doesn't make it Constitutional. Can't disagree with that, but it's important ta know what the rules actually are, when you're playin the game. There are those playing with fire now that would do well to remember that.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,202
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,202 |
Many here are reading a lot into this without knowing much about it. Is it your suggestion that nobody in society should ever be disarmed? Then how would you know this guy should not be, given the lack of detail? There's no evidence he had committed any crime at all. He had no chance to face his accuser. These laws are violations of at least the 2nd, 4th, and 5th Amendments.
One shot, one kill........ It saves a lot of ammo!
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,202 |
You know I get the apprehension over the red flag laws, but what about red flags raised over anyone who gets 5150’d, would that be acceptable to you?
5150 isn’t arbitrary, it isn’t political, it’s a medical professional stating you are a danger to yourself or others. Seems like something that makes sense, if it doesn’t, then frankly I think you are willing to put the public at risk in order not to budge an inch?
I’m pretty sure that it is already the case that if you are deemed a danger, they would already come get your firearms, so let them deem that a red flag and now they can’t say we don’t care or unwilling to make common sense gun law. Did he get that? Or did he just get surprised a 5 AM? The scenario you're talking about is already in place. There's no need for a "red flag". They don't need to "arrest" the guns if they think an individual is "dangerous". They only need to arrest the person, and do it legally.
One shot, one kill........ It saves a lot of ammo!
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Joined: Mar 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
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Guy's niece turned him in because she didnt think he need a gun. Admitted he was not a danger AFTER the fact. Dont forget the 5am part of the story She, and the judge allowing It to go forward need to be drawn and quartered. Family reunions should be fun from here on out... Prison time at the very least, their actions cost a man his life.
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2003
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I'm not in favor of red flag laws because they are unconstitutional, but pulling your gun on two cops is just plain stupid. Maybe the old dude was crazy.....probably thought he was Matt Dillon or something. He probably thought he was a minute man, and was wondering why he didn't hear the call to arms in the middle of the night. I mean, since we're speculating. P.S. The minute men standing up to the world's largest standing army was just plain stupid, too. They won that war you know.
One shot, one kill........ It saves a lot of ammo!
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,202
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,202 |
I'm not in favor of red flag laws because they are unconstitutional, but pulling your gun on two cops is just plain stupid. Maybe the old dude was crazy.....probably thought he was Matt Dillon or something. He probably thought he was a minute man, and was wondering why he didn't hear the call to arms in the middle of the night. I mean, since we're speculating. P.S. The minute men standing up to the world's largest standing army was just plain stupid, too. They won that war you know. When officers began to serve him the order, Willis became irate and grabbed his gun. He was an idiot. That'll get you shot even when they're giving you a ticket for a barking dog. They didn't shoot him for the red flag law. They shot him in self defense. The cops have the right to defend themselves. They wouldn't have been there had there not been a "red flag" law.
One shot, one kill........ It saves a lot of ammo!
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2003
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Yes, the cops were there because of an illegal law but you don't pull a gun on cops no matter what. All you'll accomplish is getting yourself shot. There are ways to fight illegal laws but getting killed isn't a smart one. The guy was an idiot. We don't know he "pulled a gun on cops" We know that's what the cops said about the dead guy. He can't refute the story.
One shot, one kill........ It saves a lot of ammo!
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,202 |
The local news said the man put the gun on a table beside the front door. A scuffle broke out when the man realized why the cops were there. The gun was knocked to the floor and discharged. On hearing the gun go off, one of the cops started shooting. That leaves out a step. He put the gun down, then when he heard what they wanted, he picked it up again. Then the scuffle started. I won't argue that the law is wrong and the whole thing should have never happened. But, he was an idiot to pull a gun on 2 cops. As soon as he did that, it became self defense for the cops and they had the right to defend themselves. Again, you're quoting the LEO's version of the story. The only other witness is the one they killed.
One shot, one kill........ It saves a lot of ammo!
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 8,109
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 8,109 |
Gentlemen, I am a law and order type of guy. I married into a cop family. Almost all of my in laws are cops, and I respect them. I, myself, went through the hiring process/testing for the CHP California highway patrol). I respect the law......
However, my guns are mostly hand me down guns, from family, most of them now dead. They are not just weapons, but part of my heritage, my history, and my legacy.
As a free man, I will not be parted from my guns, without due process. My kids are grown, I'm an empty nester now, and i will not risk having my guns lost, destroyed, or confiscated, by anyone. To me, they are irreplaceable.
If I were roused at 5am like the victim, I too would be armed, and expecting trouble, and there would surely be trouble, because I will not comply. It would not be not be my wisest move, it would not be the best move, and it might be my last move, but it would follow like the tide follows the moon.
Do as you will, but this is something I can not accept. If pushed down this road, there will be trouble. I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country. Nathan Hale No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making some other poor dumb bastard die for his. George S. Patton Close. No poor bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making other bastards die for their country." I'll see yours and raise you one: Better to fight for something than live for nothing."
An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.
the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,202
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,202 |
I'm not in favor of red flag laws because they are unconstitutional, but pulling your gun on two cops is just plain stupid. Maybe the old dude was crazy.....probably thought he was Matt Dillon or something. Actually, they're probably not unconstitutional, but it will get litigated. You may want to Google "Shall Not Be Infringed".... *You* may want to google Mathews v. Eldridge, which is the basis for the constitutionality of Ex Parte Restraining Orders, and therefore, Red Flag laws, which follow the same procedure. The Supreme Kangaroos haven't directly decided the constitutionality of Red Flag laws, but every lower court decision has upheld em. I think you're confused. MATHEWS v. ELDRIDGE | FindLaw https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/424/319.htmlUnited States Supreme Court. MATHEWS v. ELDRIDGE(1976) No. 74-204 Argued: October 6, 1975 Decided: February 24, 1976. In order to establish initial and continued entitlement to disability benefits under the Social Security Act (Act), a worker must demonstrate that, inter alia, he is unable "to engage in any substantial gainful activity by reason of any medically determinable physical or mental ...
One shot, one kill........ It saves a lot of ammo!
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 8,109
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 8,109 |
So what would stop someone’s ex from stating that they’re ex was a threat. So the cops come and take his, or hers guns!!! Nothing, nothing at all. There in lies the problem. Who's word do you accept, that another citizen is unworthy of his God Given Rights?
An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.
the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,528 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,528 Likes: 6 |
Guy's niece turned him in because she didnt think he need a gun. Admitted he was not a danger AFTER the fact. Dont forget the 5am part of the story She, and the judge allowing It to go forward need to be drawn and quartered. Family reunions should be fun from here on out... Prison time at the very least, their actions cost a man his life. The problem is that there's no penalty for perjury anymore. Except when it involves unemployment or welfare $. .gov will kill you for $. So, there's no balance in the procedure for obtaining an EPO or RFO. The explanation for the support of due process is that the Judge sees an affidavit submitted under penalty of prosecution for perjury. But there's never any prosecutions for perjury, even when its obvious the affidavit was bullshit. Which is why the crap in the FISA affidavits won't be prosecuted.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,730 Likes: 19
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,730 Likes: 19 |
I'm not in favor of red flag laws because they are unconstitutional, but pulling your gun on two cops is just plain stupid. Maybe the old dude was crazy.....probably thought he was Matt Dillon or something. Actually, they're probably not unconstitutional, but it will get litigated. The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. - Second Amendment The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated. - Fourth Amendment No person shall be deprived of property, without due process of law. - Fifth Amendment
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