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Getting paid for ptsd should be a check in the box for "adjudicated mentally defective"
good point...….bob
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Wait until they start looking at vicodin given to counter claustrophobia when getting an MRI. My brother went off deep and when mom and dad died. Sat waiting with his SKS for the Taliban to March by. Since I was executor he was mad at me, too. Met with the local police, they kept a record on him but didnt want to intervene as that always comes out bad. Estate settled, he died too, SKS went to pawn and I couldn't get it back. Did get a TC and cowboy 45 back for family
The driver was alcohol, not drugs, along with schizophrenia, diagnosed by hunch
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Funny you should mention Marxism. Carl Marx believed that the people should be armed. Lenin did too, until the time came that they might be turned on him. Exactly. "In order for a full-blown tyranny to take hold, the people must first be disarmed," Sir William Blackwell Yes, it transforms the right to keep and bear arms into the privilege of doing so "during good behavior." The "during good behavior" part is the arbitrary component, depending on the definition of "good behavior" according to whoever is pulling the trigger on it. Once the trigger is pulled, due process is out the window, because the way it's set up, judges merely become rubber stamps under the "better safe than sorry" rationale. "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," Benjamin Franklin But you have to look back at why the mental institutions were shuttered. When the courts decided it was unconstitutional to hold or medicate anyone against their will, who had broken no law, society left it to the mentally ill to decide if they wanted or needed to be institutionalized. So I think there you have it backwards, the mentally ill aren’t all over the streets because the institutions were shuttered, they were shuttered because the mentally ill started choosing to not attend. Respectfully, I disagree. I don't have to look back at why mental institutions were shuttered, I know why. Mental institutions were shuttered as a direct result of the Progressive Machine/PC Brigade's involvement. Certainly, most mentally deficient individuals opt not to be medicated - they are mentally deficient - and as such, are not fit to make these decisions for themselves. Many of these mentally impaired people do not have families or relatives at all, no one who can be relied upon to make such decisions on their behalf. Previously, in such cases, these people became wards of the State. Furthermore, society did not leave the mentally ill to decide for themselves whether or not they wanted to be medicated or institutionalized; rather, it was and is a direct result of the Federal Gov't., the State's and law enforcement's inability to provide proper care for these people - it is the de facto state as determined by the current limitations. The Federal and State role in mental health is quite clear in providing care and services for these individuals, but they are hamstrung as a result of mental hospital closures nationwide. Funny you should mention Marxism. Carl Marx believed that the people should be armed. Lenin did too, until the time came that they might be turned on him. Exactly. "In order for a full-blown tyranny to take hold, the people must first be disarmed," Sir William Blackwell Yes, it transforms the right to keep and bear arms into the privilege of doing so "during good behavior." The "during good behavior" part is the arbitrary component, depending on the definition of "good behavior" according to whoever is pulling the trigger on it. Once the trigger is pulled, due process is out the window, because the way it's set up, judges merely become rubber stamps under the "better safe than sorry" rationale. "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," Benjamin Franklin But you have to look back at why the mental institutions were shuttered. When the courts decided it was unconstitutional to hold or medicate anyone against their will, who had broken no law, society left it to the mentally ill to decide if they wanted or needed to be institutionalized. So I think there you have it backwards, the mentally ill aren’t all over the streets because the institutions were shuttered, they were shuttered because the mentally ill started choosing to not attend. Respectfully, I disagree. I don't have to look back at why mental institutions were shuttered, I know why. Mental institutions were shuttered as a direct result of the Progressive Machine/PC Brigade's involvement. Certainly, most mentally deficient individuals opt not to be medicated - they are mentally deficient - and as such, are not fit to make these decisions for themselves. Many of these mentally impaired people do not have families or relatives at all, no one who can be relied upon to make such decisions on their behalf. Previously, in such cases, these people became wards of the State. Furthermore, society did not leave the mentally ill to decide for themselves whether or not they wanted to be medicated or institutionalized; rather, it was and is a direct result of the Federal Gov't., the State's and law enforcement's inability to provide proper care for these people - it is the de facto state as determined by the current limitations. The Federal and State role in mental health is quite clear in providing care and services for these individuals, but they are hamstrung as a result of mental hospital closures nationwide. Well we will have to disagree, new laws new rights, do inable the mentally ill much more say in their care. https://www.cchr.org/about-us/mental-health-declaration-of-human-rights.html
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If the person is "a danger", lock up the person, not the guns.
One shot, one kill........ It saves a lot of ammo!
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Prior to 1975, crazy people were locked up. It was good for them, good for their families and good for society.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Displaying anger or aggression are not signs of mental illness.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Displaying anger or aggression are not signs of mental illness. We'll, they are "signs" of mental illness, but not definitive proof. Stupidity or immaturity can cause that also.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Displaying anger or aggression are not signs of mental illness. We'll, they are "signs" of mental illness, but not definitive proof. Stupidity or immaturity can cause that also. Still glad your no longer a LEO Lt. Those last few years on the job your post here started showing signs of anger and aggressiveness.
Last edited by websterparish47; 08/14/19.
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Better one dangerous person have a gun than a million people be deprived of them.
Liberals feel the opposite way.
"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Lol....it don't get much more "don't GAF". Besides, I never said that being stupid or immature was a crime.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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So I think most believe the mentally ill and firearms are a bad mix. So I am curious about your opinions, and at what step (if any) in the process, Operative word "due" as in 'due process" that we already have in place and keeping with the spirit and law of our Bill Of Rights and the Constitution... PERIOD This~~~~~~~~~~
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Ranger
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The family has a part to play but safeguards should be in place. Yes, but they usually won't, and that's where the safeguards need to come into play. Case in point......one of my neighbors. With the exception of one son, their kids are druggies. One of their sons is a convicted felon, and got caught with a house full of guns and drugs.......which, according to the laws, meant he should have been locked up again for quite a few years. But, did it happen.......nope, because he happened to work for a guy who had some political pull, and he got the charges reduced. However, while the perp was out on bail, he was living with his parents, and deer hunting on their land......during gun season, when he was not only supposed to be not allowed a gun in his possession, but not allowed to live in a place where there was one. Of course, his family ignored the law Same family, one of the daughters married a vet, supposedly suffering from PTSD, but who couldn't hold a job because he couldn't pass a drug test. Dude would walk around armed, shooting towards the neighbors homes, threatening them, while the family did nothing......nothing that is except get mad if the neighbors called the cops. In most instances, the families of a lot of these mass shooters knew something wasn't right with the person, but they didn't want to see the person get in trouble. It didn't matter that the person was a threat to society, all that mattered to them was to protect the person from being put in a nut house, where they probably belonged. I would have no problem seeing the family members that protect these people being charged with a crime also. Of course, proving that they knew something was wrong, might be hard to do.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,167 Likes: 2 |
So I think most believe the mentally ill and firearms are a bad mix. So I am curious about your opinions, and at what step (if any) in the process, Operative word "due" as in 'due process" that we already have in place and keeping with the spirit and law of our Bill Of Rights and the Constitution... PERIOD Re: 'red flag laws' - due process does not apply...... Which - IMHO - it total bullshit...Well unfortunately OUR Gov't gives two f u c k s NOT. Exactly... Which is why these must be overturned at the SCOTUS asap...
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69
Pro-Constitution.
LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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Campfire Sage
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Sadly, SCOTUS said it was okay for the police to rob you of your cash on the highway, then make you prove to them in court that it was actually yours before you can get it back. In other words, they've already agreed to turn presumption of innocence on its head. We can hope that the Trump SCOTUS will overturn both, but I'm not holding my breath. We will likely need the political process to restore presumption of innocence.
Maybe a Presumption of Innocence Restoration Act of 2020.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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If you don't think things have gone to hell since we quit locking nuts up (1975), just watch a Democratic Debate.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 28,202 |
Displaying anger or aggression are not signs of mental illness. You miss the point. You can see mental illness in people, who are not showing signs of aggression or anger, right? That dude standing on the corner, looking up into the sun, jabbering away, obviously has issues, but is not threatening anyone. That clear it up for you?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 28,202 |
The family has a part to play but safeguards should be in place. Yes, but they usually won't, and that's where the safeguards need to come into play. Case in point......one of my neighbors. With the exception of one son, their kids are druggies. One of their sons is a convicted felon, and got caught with a house full of guns and drugs.......which, according to the laws, meant he should have been locked up again for quite a few years. But, did it happen.......nope, because he happened to work for a guy who had some political pull, and he got the charges reduced. However, while the perp was out on bail, he was living with his parents, and deer hunting on their land......during gun season, when he was not only supposed to be not allowed a gun in his possession, but not allowed to live in a place where there was one. Of course, his family ignored the law Same family, one of the daughters married a vet, supposedly suffering from PTSD, but who couldn't hold a job because he couldn't pass a drug test. Dude would walk around armed, shooting towards the neighbors homes, threatening them, while the family did nothing......nothing that is except get mad if the neighbors called the cops. In most instances, the families of a lot of these mass shooters knew something wasn't right with the person, but they didn't want to see the person get in trouble. It didn't matter that the person was a threat to society, all that mattered to them was to protect the person from being put in a nut house, where they probably belonged. I would have no problem seeing the family members that protect these people being charged with a crime also. Of course, proving that they knew something was wrong, might be hard to do. I agree with much of what you say, but question how you can conclude “most families”?
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 28,202 |
Ok, so many have said “due process” is required.
Describe to me “due process” in regards to mental illness.
Is a mental health Dr. standing before a judge, making his/her case to confine their patient for two more weeks, against their will, though no crime has been committed, considered “due process?”
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Campfire Tracker
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we all see the sick people who are around our personal circle …..you mean democrats?????
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,749 Likes: 20 |
Ok, so many have said “due process” is required.
Describe to me “due process” in regards to mental illness.
Is a mental health Dr. standing before a judge, making his/her case to confine their patient for two more weeks, against their will, though no crime has been committed, considered “due process?” It's been explained to you many times. Will one more time make a difference?
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