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I am not a scientist--therefore I posted definitions from people who are. That is not an uncommon practice to cite scientists on science. Not sure why you think that I think that humanity is irrelevant--human life is created in the image of God and is sacred and morally responsible. Humanity is not irrelevant. But it is irrelevant to the argument you are cutting and pasting futilely trying to describe a difference between micro and macro evolution. And if human life is created in the image of God, which race of humans is that? Whites? Blacks? Or maybe an extinct member of genus Homo like Homo habilis or Homo erectus? And if God looks like one of the modern human races, why would God try to emulate an evolved ape even before the universe was created? I'm sure it is irrelevant to your theories but it is not to science as I quoted scientists using it. Are your credentials large enough to cite yourself? Additionally DNA studies are showing evidence of the likelihood of a single source for humans. Here’s the Cliffs Notes version: According to the authors all our mitochondria came from a very small population about 100,000 to 200,000 years ago, perhaps as small as a population size of two, though later in the paper they qualify that number. According to Stoeckle and Thaler, the same timeframe is true for 90 percent of animal species. No wonder so many people in the theistic evolution/creation dispute got irritated or excited. Theistic evolutionists saw it as an occasion for fanning the flames of anti-evolutionary sentiment. Young earth creationists saw it as evidence for the ark. https://evolutionnews.org/2018/12/does-barcoding-dna-reveal-a-single-human-pair/I'm citing an evolutionary site so you don't choke on this possibility.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I am not a scientist--therefore I posted definitions from people who are. That is not an uncommon practice to cite scientists on science. Not sure why you think that I think that humanity is irrelevant--human life is created in the image of God and is sacred and morally responsible. Humanity is not irrelevant. But it is irrelevant to the argument you are cutting and pasting futilely trying to describe a difference between micro and macro evolution. And if human life is created in the image of God, which race of humans is that? Whites? Blacks? Or maybe an extinct member of genus Homo like Homo habilis or Homo erectus? And if God looks like one of the modern human races, why would God try to emulate an evolved ape even before the universe was created? You are creating a problem that does not exist. All humans, whether living or dead, are created in God's image. You seem to forget God is infinite. Therefore when He creates He creates lots of variableness. By that reasoning, God could be a "She" instead of a "He"? Geno
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men. In it is contentment In it is death and all you seek (Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
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Really?
Quantum Physics is just "self evident"? Nice twist of my words. I said truth is self-existent meaning we do not make it true or untrue--we can only discover it.
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I am not a scientist--therefore I posted definitions from people who are. That is not an uncommon practice to cite scientists on science. Not sure why you think that I think that humanity is irrelevant--human life is created in the image of God and is sacred and morally responsible. Humanity is not irrelevant. But it is irrelevant to the argument you are cutting and pasting futilely trying to describe a difference between micro and macro evolution. And if human life is created in the image of God, which race of humans is that? Whites? Blacks? Or maybe an extinct member of genus Homo like Homo habilis or Homo erectus? And if God looks like one of the modern human races, why would God try to emulate an evolved ape even before the universe was created? You are creating a problem that does not exist. All humans, whether living or dead, are created in God's image. You seem to forget God is infinite. Therefore when He creates He creates lots of variableness. By that reasoning, God could be a "She" instead of a "He"? Geno He represents both genders because the image of God is not merely a physical image, but mind, will, emotions, and most importantly a spiritual dimension that includes a conscience. Expanding further, the characteristics of the human race are best represented by acknowledging both genders.
Last edited by Thunderstick; 08/16/19.
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You guys are all over the place with your logic. First you want scientific evidence--well that usually comes from scientists right? When we cite scientific sources then you don't want any copy and pastes. Do you want plagiarisms? Do you know what is that you want?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I am not a scientist--therefore I posted definitions from people who are. That is not an uncommon practice to cite scientists on science. Not sure why you think that I think that humanity is irrelevant--human life is created in the image of God and is sacred and morally responsible. Humanity is not irrelevant. But it is irrelevant to the argument you are cutting and pasting futilely trying to describe a difference between micro and macro evolution. And if human life is created in the image of God, which race of humans is that? Whites? Blacks? Or maybe an extinct member of genus Homo like Homo habilis or Homo erectus? And if God looks like one of the modern human races, why would God try to emulate an evolved ape even before the universe was created? You are creating a problem that does not exist. All humans, whether living or dead, are created in God's image. You seem to forget God is infinite. Therefore when He creates He creates lots of variableness. By that reasoning, God could be a "She" instead of a "He"? Geno He represents both genders because the image of God is not merely a physical image, but mind, will, emotions, and most importantly a spiritual dimension that includes a conscience. In other words, historically in our collective "Western" languages we just use the male pronoun out of convenience? Geno
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men. In it is contentment In it is death and all you seek (Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
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You guys are all over the place with your logic. First you want scientific evidence--well that usually comes from scientists right? When we cite scientific sources then you don't want any copy and pastes. Do you want plagiarisms? Do you know what is that you want? theological discussions and logic in the same sentence. Bet thats a first.
Most people don't have what it takes to get old
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Oh my .. the guy from Harvard who wrote the standard legal textbook for the laws of evidence to be employed in a courtroom applied those same laws of evidence to investigate the evidence of the resurrection event. Not to mention the logic and faith of our founders... Unbelief of the heart has the potential to prejudice the mind against objectivity.
And Aristotle who did much to develop logic and its rules said: "God is a supreme and eternal living being, so that to God belong life and continuous and eternal duration. For that is what God is."
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All religious arguments start from an assumption of authority. God said it I believe it. then follow up, with you said, they said, he said. Thats a definite prejudice of the mind against objectivity.
then compare it to a metric, (geology, phylogenetics,mitochondria DNA,) then expect a Harvard lawyer to interpret it. Got it.
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He represents both genders because the image of God is not merely a physical image, but mind, will, emotions, and most importantly a spiritual dimension that includes a conscience. [/quote] In other words, historically in our collective "Western" languages we just use the male pronoun out of convenience? Geno[/quote] indeed. patriarchy has been the choice ever since the rabbi's took over the hebrew religion and related discussions. that was about 10,000 years ago, the last time there was a massive climate change? we moved from a land based god to a sky god, more or less.
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All religious arguments start from an assumption of authority. God said it I believe it. then follow up, with you said, they said, he said. Thats a definite prejudice of the mind against objectivity.
then compare it to a metric, (geology, phylogenetics,mitochondria DNA,) then expect a Harvard lawyer to interpret it. Got it. You are changing your original premise because you can't sustain it. You inferred theology and logic do not correlate. I showed you where the Aristotle employed both logic and theism. Belief or unbelief can be logical or illogical. If you can't see that then yes you have no objectivity in your thinking.
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Does your starting assumption assume that you have the authority to discern facts?
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Does your starting assumption assume that you have the authority to discern facts? can facts be fully ascertained in the english language and it's variations, or should it be converted back to der hebraic language? there's arguments on both sides of this issue.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Aramaic Gus,
let's get to the root of this.
A time machine would allow us to go back and examine the oral record from pre-written history too.
Geno
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men. In it is contentment In it is death and all you seek (Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
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All religious arguments start from an assumption of authority. God said it I believe it. then follow up, with you said, they said, he said. Thats a definite prejudice of the mind against objectivity.
then compare it to a metric, (geology, phylogenetics,mitochondria DNA,) then expect a Harvard lawyer to interpret it. Got it. You are changing your original premise because you can't sustain it. You inferred theology and logic do not correlate. I showed you where the Aristotle employed both logic and theism. Belief or unbelief can be logical or illogical. If you can't see that then yes you have no objectivity in your thinking. not changing anything, Im just not playing (and have no need to) play on your ballfield
Last edited by Etoh; 08/16/19.
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Aramaic Gus,
let's get to the root of this.
A time machine would allow us to go back and examine the oral record from pre-written history too.
Geno yes, agreed on all accounts. a time machine would be good. a jot and a tittle was added later on. before that it was still the hebraic language. once the greek language came into play, things changed?
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Aramaic Gus,
let's get to the root of this.
A time machine would allow us to go back and examine the oral record from pre-written history too.
Geno and observe what really happened, and stick our fingers in and change things, and come to a present that would be completely unfamiliar.
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Aramaic Gus,
let's get to the root of this.
A time machine would allow us to go back and examine the oral record from pre-written history too.
Geno revive a dead language i'll go with latin as a middle ground make my two semesters in high school meaningful used to work for grand discussions before they tried french
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Which explains a lot.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Aramaic Gus,
let's get to the root of this.
A time machine would allow us to go back and examine the oral record from pre-written history too.
Geno and observe what really happened, and stick our fingers in and change things, and come to a present that would be completely unfamiliar. well, we're smarter now right? Smart phones even. Perhaps we could arrange it so the world is still familiar but all the silliness is gone. Evolution could be written into holy books maybe? Geno
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men. In it is contentment In it is death and all you seek (Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
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All religious arguments start from an assumption of authority. God said it I believe it. then follow up, with you said, they said, he said. Thats a definite prejudice of the mind against objectivity.
then compare it to a metric, (geology, phylogenetics,mitochondria DNA,) then expect a Harvard lawyer to interpret it. Got it. Maybe it is just semantics, but I would not agree that all religious arguments start from an assumption of authority. Many indeed do.... but.... In my own case, my “religious” conviction stems from the “recognition” of Jesus’ authority. From my viewpoint, there is no assumption. Yet, YMMV
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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