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Campfire Outfitter
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How in the blue blazes do you get that I’m arguing for a federal red flag law? Seriously, are you people taking crazy pills?
We've been thinking that lately you've lost it. We remember you as being against government usurpations of power. I’m not arguing FOR anything. I’m telling what is ALREADY.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Where do you practice?
This shouldn't be an issue, given we have a Constitution that was designed primarily to protect natural human rights.
My late father/Esq stated that his profession was primarily protected by attorney-politicians who made sure attorneys were necessary and increasingly so by self-serving laws.
He was no slouch ambulance chaser and was highly respected in this State...served 12 years as Chairman of the State Board of Bar Examiners and was one of the drafters of the Bar Exam each year. He would no doubt have clobbered some of your assertions and notions.
I'm not trying to pick a fight. We just don't see eye-to-eye on this issue and the ramifications. Why the frick are you talking about the Constitution? That is a dead instrument. Honest Abe ripped it up and wiped his ass with it 150 years ago. Seriously, we saw how this schit show was going and tried to leave then. But you damned Yankees drug us back in. Now you expect us to give a damn because your states at taking your rights? Go find a map of the states that have red flag laws in place, only one of them is in the South and it has been occupied by the entire state of New York. I mean, I’m broadly sympathetic, but quit crying about the Constitution. It’s been a dead letter for a Long damned time and most on this board will cheer its destruction when the subject comes up. Can't disagree with what you've said about the Constitution. Most of my practice is focused on the Constitution, but it might as well be based on a random number generator the way federal courts work. And there you have it. White guys with guns should expect nothing but outrageous injustice from our judges. We haven't had any semblance of the rule of law for about 20 years. Welcome to East Germany 1984
Last edited by Robert_White; 08/17/19.
Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven.
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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How in the blue blazes do you get that I’m arguing for a federal red flag law? Seriously, are you people taking crazy pills?
We've been thinking that lately you've lost it. We remember you as being against government usurpations of power. I’m not arguing FOR anything. I’m telling what is ALREADY. What if the Founders took that attitude? Founders: "King George, we demand our rights as Englishmen under the Magna Carta." King George: "LMAO, like we've given a crap about the Magna Carta for a century or more." Founders: "Oh, I had never looked at it like that before. Never mind."
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Campfire Regular
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I would propose that firearms could be taken ex parte, but that within 14 days of the order the state must file and pursue an involuntary commitment or the guns go back. I would also provide criminal and civil penalties for falsely reporting someone to be a risk. Another traitor. Some one ask TRH just how would he keep nut jobs from using guns? It is impossible. Infringing on MY rights with feel good legislation isn't the way...that's all I know.
"Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, and more money." -Tom T Hall
Molon Labe
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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I would propose that firearms could be taken ex parte, but that within 14 days of the order the state must file and pursue an involuntary commitment or the guns go back. I would also provide criminal and civil penalties for falsely reporting someone to be a risk. Another traitor. Some one ask TRH just how would he keep nut jobs from using guns? It is impossible. Infringing on MY rights with feel good legislation isn't the way...that's all I know. There's the answer.
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Joined: Dec 2013
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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How in the blue blazes do you get that I’m arguing for a federal red flag law? Seriously, are you people taking crazy pills?
We've been thinking that lately you've lost it. We remember you as being against government usurpations of power. I’m not arguing FOR anything. I’m telling what is ALREADY. What if the Founders took that attitude? Founders: "King George, we demand our rights as Englishmen under the Magna Carta." King George: "LMAO, like we've given a crap about the Magna Carta for a century or more." Founders: "Oh, I had never looked at it like that before. Never mind." If the Founders has given a schit about all that, they wouldn’t have put a worse form of government than what they suffered under the British a few years after the Revolution.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Outfitter
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If the Founders has given a schit about all that, they wouldn’t have put a worse form of government than what they suffered under the British a few years after the Revolution.
So there you have it. Joe Bob thinks the constitution is a worthless document. He would rather of had English tyranny instead of freedom.
Swifty
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Campfire Outfitter
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If the Founders has given a schit about all that, they wouldn’t have put a worse form of government than what they suffered under the British a few years after the Revolution.
So there you have it. Joe Bob thinks the constitution is a worthless document. He would rather of had English tyranny instead of freedom. Has the Constitution constrained government in any way? Is our government appreciably better than any other? Are we more free? Is the rule of law more followed? Do we all get equal treatment under the law, or are some allowed to break laws with impunity that would see you or I do long prison sentences? So, if the measure of anything is by results, what is the worth of the Constitution?
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I'm not a lawyer, never even played one on TV, but an attorney once told me that in law school they had been told: "There is no law, only lawyers". Faculty would mock students for saying something like "I found this law..."
Something to think about.
Paul
Stupidity has its way, while its cousin, evil, runs rampant.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I'm not a lawyer, never even played one on TV, but an attorney once told me that in law school they had been told: "There is no law, only lawyers". Faculty would mock students for saying something like "I found this law..."
Something to think about.
Paul
A bit overstated but essentially true. The law is malleable and is prone to being bent to achieve desired and predetermined outcomes.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
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My rationale being that if they are going to take your guns, they need to prove that you are crazy, or give them back.
That won't be happening unless a case gets to the SCOTUS & they rule that currently administered RFL's are unconstitutional...................but that's very unlikely as well & would defeat the intentions of the left that is intent on imposing RFL's as far & as wide as they are able to. MM
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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If the Founders has given a schit about all that, they wouldn’t have put a worse form of government than what they suffered under the British a few years after the Revolution.
So there you have it. Joe Bob thinks the constitution is a worthless document. He would rather of had English tyranny instead of freedom. Has the Constitution constrained government in any way? Is our government appreciably better than any other? Are we more free? Is the rule of law more followed? Do we all get equal treatment under the law, or are some allowed to break laws with impunity that would see you or I do long prison sentences? So, if the measure of anything is by results, what is the worth of the Constitution? Seems to me the limitations here aren’t a part of English Common Law nor of the Constitution but are in fact inherent in the subjects of those documents’ governance. We are, after all, totally depraved. If the OT Israelites could see what they saw God do in freeing them from slavery in Egypt then we can collectively forget any and all redemptive acts of Providence. The object lesson here isn’t the founding documents’ limitations but our own.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Has the Constitution constrained government in any way? Is our government appreciably better than any other? Are we more free? Is the rule of law more followed? Do we all get equal treatment under the law, or are some allowed to break laws with impunity that would see you or I do long prison sentences?
So, if the measure of anything is by results, what is the worth of the Constitution? Your complaint is not with the document itself, but the humans that have ignored or perverted it for their own purposes. You've no business degrading the Constitution.
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
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Has the Constitution constrained government in any way? Is our government appreciably better than any other? Are we more free? Is the rule of law more followed? Do we all get equal treatment under the law, or are some allowed to break laws with impunity that would see you or I do long prison sentences?
So, if the measure of anything is by results, what is the worth of the Constitution? Your complaint is not with the document itself, but the humans that have ignored or perverted it for their own purposes. You've no business degrading the Constitution. This.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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You can get an ex parte protective order and get your firearms confiscated in Kansas tomorrow.
Your post is a good example of why we are losing the fight. We don’t understand the fight. There is ZERO chance of a federal red flag law. It doesn’t work that way. Every red flag law will be put in place by a state legislature.
You talked in some of your post as if we have avoided UBC and other measures since Sandy Hook. Far from it. Lots of states have very restrictive UBC, Red Flag laws, AND AWB bans more restrictive than anything ever proposed on the national level while people on this board and elsewhere stay focused on what the idiots in Congress are doing. You are not responding to my arguments or questions, but instead attacking me. I've never heard of anybody having their guns confiscated due to an ex parte protective order in Kansas, nor is there a Red Flag Law. If there is no chance of a Federal Red Flag Law, then why are you arguing for one? Seventeen states aren't even half of the US. The only states I know of that restrict assault weapons are California and New York. There is very little possibility anything like that will be passed in my state or those that I spend time in with the possible exception of Texas, which seems to be going south quickly commensurate with the flood of illegals. As to Sandy Hook specifically, Cali already had an AWB in place. IIRC New York's did come about after Sandy hook and ostensibly in response to it. It is hard to beat a bunch of New York City liberals and the ultra-rich former mayor of the same city when their monies are focused on anti-gun legislation. I'm not the problem here. The problem is defeatist attitudes such as your own. How in the blue blazes do you get that I’m arguing for a federal red flag law? Seriously, are you people taking crazy pills? If you're not arguing for Red Flag Laws, many of us here don't understand what you're doing. I've refuted many of your arguments, yet here you are, accusing me of taking "crazy pills". It sure seems that if you're not arguing for them, you are arguing against fighting them.
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Joined: May 2006
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I'm not a lawyer, never even played one on TV, but an attorney once told me that in law school they had been told: "There is no law, only lawyers". Faculty would mock students for saying something like "I found this law..."
Something to think about.
Paul
A bit overstated but essentially true. The law is malleable and is prone to being bent to achieve desired and predetermined outcomes. Of course, but in many instances SCOTUS has straightened the law out or bent it another direction.
Last edited by night_owl; 08/17/19.
abusus non tollit usum
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I "get" Joe, he doesn't like the 14th amendment; but like red flag laws, the 14th amendment is a "thing".
abusus non tollit usum
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I get Joe too. He probably got all giddy inside after Omar Qaddafi stated the the US should make Yo BamBam King. Seems like both are his idols.
Swifty
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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