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Joined: Nov 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,736 |
I chose the .270 win. over the .308W Win. for the simple reason that it will perform better as climate change begins to overtake the Earth. Don't ask me why but the "science" is settled between the two cartridges. Although I must say with rising temperatures, I'll have to cut-back at least one grain of H4831SC.
My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,957 |
In the absence of fact, theory is fine.
Not theory, fact. You can easily test the two for yourself. Sorry that doesn't fit in one of your pre-conceived boxes... Riddle me this. Why does the bullet from a CCI CB Short penetrate more than that of a .22 LR when applied to the same anatomical region on hogs? I'm wondering where 150 Partitions are the basis for a point on "conventional" bullets? S.D. often falls to pieces about the time the bullet falls to pieces; my money is on a 30/30's ability to dig if we're talking 150 cup and core spitzers....or the Krag. I have found the 30-30 with 150 and 170 grain bullets gives more penetration than most would believe. I can't remember ever catching a 150 gr. Bullet from a 30-30 on deer. I generally used Speer's version. Those are most likely flatnose or roundnosed designs; a 30-30 with a Speer spitzer within its requisite 150 yards is akin to the 270 and 308 with Partitions, perhaps even in the TSX realm for digging, assuming it opens a smidge, and evenly at that. The material, the meplat and the shove from the rear along with the resistance from the front all muddys the SD arguments.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,957
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,957 |
I chose the .270 win. over the .308W Win. for the simple reason that it will perform better as climate change begins to overtake the Earth. Don't ask me why but the "science" is settled between the two cartridges. Although I must say with rising temperatures, I'll have to cut-back at least one grain of H4831SC. Burning more powder to do the same thing may be the contributing factor to climate change....
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 17,174
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 17,174 |
In the absence of fact, theory is fine.
Not theory, fact. You can easily test the two for yourself. Sorry that doesn't fit in one of your pre-conceived boxes... Riddle me this. Why does the bullet from a CCI CB Short penetrate more than that of a .22 LR when applied to the same anatomical region on hogs? Newton's Third Law. Look here for more on Newton.I don't speak Newton gak too much. 'splain to a simple mind why two bullets, one with SD of .083 (CB short) penetrates better than one of .115 (LR) in a pig? Same bullet material, same shot aspect and medium, only the velocity and SD are different. Brad seems convinced SD rules, I'm skeptical and think other affairs might have an influence also. The faster is moves the faster it stops. - Right.
Randy NRA Patriot Life Benefactor
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 17,174
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 17,174 |
John, heck of a write up there, thanks. He always does a great job. I also thank you for it.
Randy NRA Patriot Life Benefactor
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,315
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,315 |
I have both. 270 is my go to simply because of the type of hunting I do. Could get by with either but why? Ginger or Mary Anne? What's with the "or"? Make that "and". You may want to include a second "and". The older I get, the better Mrs. Howell looks. I knew someone was going to go there. Sheese! I know.....hot right? Money too!
"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651 |
The faster is moves the faster it stops. - Right. Although it doesn't make sense to many. it is often the case that the same bullet driven fast will stop sooner than the same bullet driven slower. Which of these two loads do you think will penetrate more one gallon water jugs? 1. .45-70, 460g hardcast @ 1812fps, 3354fpe 2. .45-70, 300g hardcast @ 1167fps, 907fpe The "obvious" choice is also the wrong one. In my testing the 460g hardcast penetrated 9 water jugs, stopping in the last one. Damage was extensive, with most jugs spectacularly blown up, and included breaking the crosspiece on the front sawhorse holding the board that held the water jugs. Damage was far less impressive with the 300g bullet, which blew up a jug or two but left leaking entrance and exit holes in the others. Total penetration was 11 jugs with an exit in the last one. If you're thinking this was a one-off test result, you would be mistaken. Similar results on multiple trips to the range. I've never caught the slower 300g bullet because i run out of board to rest the water jugs on.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,390 Likes: 4 |
Yep Ginger and Maryanne here, throw in a 7-08 to split hairs.Use the 270 in more open country and let it be a bit longer and heavier. The 308 build a light one and put a low powered scope on it set up for denser areas. When I take two rifles this is the approach I take to cover hilly and lots of trees or out in the sage. Not because I am worried my rifle would break. I used to know a guy who used a 375 H&H for hunting deer in trees. He said he didn't worry about trees. He just shot through them.
βIn a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.β β George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Joined: Feb 2004
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651 |
[I used to know a guy who used a 375 H&H for hunting deer in trees. He said he didn't worry about trees. He just shot through them. When I got my first centerfire (7mm RM) I bet Big Brother it would shoot through a live 1-foot diameter pine tree. He bet it wouldn't. He lost. 160g Speer Grand Slam.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,282
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,282 |
The fact remains the most accurate way to compare bullets of different caliber is not weight, it is SD/BC numbers. The better comparison of a 270/150 is not a 308/150, it is a 308/180 (or at the very least a 165).
I've used both the 270 and 308 on everything from coyotes and antelope, through all manner of deer, up to elk. I've used 130's, 140, qnd 150's in the 270, and 150's and 165's in the 308 (though have tested 180's for penetration). What a bullet will do to deer isn't how I judge a bullet... it's just not much of a test. Elk sized game is what I think constitutes a real test for bullets. The 308 Win is my hand's down favorite cartridge (I currently have three), and for elk I mostly load 165's to get just a bit more penetration than comparable 150's. I'm completely aware 150 will work and work well... I just prefer a deeper dig and two holes if I can get them. Pretty simple really...
βPerfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Awayβ Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: May 2007
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2007
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Like the way you think Doc, smiling here. Well thank you Dan. It's a gift,but at least I'm responding to therapy and will hopefully be normal soon.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,945 |
The whole 270 vs 30 caliber thing is why I shoot a 280 a lot. It's for people who can't make up their mind and can't afford to build a B29. The nicest Rifle I own is a early production M76 Dakota in 7mm-08 with pretty English Walnut. It shoots well under moa, doesn't kick as much a 308 and kills stuff really well. If I load 120 grain Balilsitic Tips,it thinks it's a 270. If I shoot 150 grain Hornady ELDXs 'it thinks it's a 308. I choose which bullet by the Solunar Table,otherwise it's just a guess and who wants that? One of the best Campfire posts ever.... Thanks John, I may be confused,but at least I'm clear about it. Kinda like the Baptist Preachers of my youth,I may not be right but I'm never in doubt.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,143 Likes: 10
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,143 Likes: 10 |
Am familiar with Baptist preachers of that era! My maternal grandfather was one....
By the way, I also used to know a guy who grew up in the same Pennsylvania town as John Alden Knight, who developed the tables. During summers my friend Dave made money caddying at the local golf course, and caddied for Knight a LOT.
Once day Dave got up the nerve to ask him, "Mister Knight, do your tables really work?
Knight looked at him, then asked, "How many days a week do you caddy for me?"
Dave thought, then said, "Most days."
Alden said, "Then I'd say they work...."
βMontana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.β John Steinbeck
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,945 |
Am familiar with Baptist preachers of that era! My maternal grandfather was one....
By the way, I also used to know a guy who grew up in the same Pennsylvania town as John Alden Knight, who developed the tables. During summers my friend Dave made money caddying at the local golf course, and caddied for Knight a LOT.
Once day Dave got up the nerve to ask him, "Mister Knight, do your tables really work?
Knight looked at him, then asked, "How many days a week do you caddy for me?"
Dave thought, then said, "Most days."
Alden said, "Then I'd say they work...." Wonderful story. The guy was a genius, a couple of my buddies live by those tables, I was thinking about Ed Zern,who understood them better than anybody,and used them to conceive his children and cook pasta if I remember correctly. I have a number of Baptist preachers in my family as well;I still feel guilty about hunting on Sunday,I do it anyways(always after church),but hope nobody sees me. Like foolin around with your wife,It's just better to keep somethings concealed from the neighbors. They think I'm eccentric enough already and it is kind of a Baptist environment here. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Last edited by ruraldoc; 08/22/19.
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 8,908 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 8,908 Likes: 2 |
Well simple really, the cops and military don't use 270's and if SHTF you can all ways get 308's from the cops and military if you need it bad enough.
" Cheapest velocity in the world comes from a long barrel and I sure do like them. MB "
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,179 |
If SHTF, nothing will be gotten from LE or military.
If one is not handloading/reloading, regardless of the chosen cartridge, they are WAY behind the curve.
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 47,155 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 47,155 Likes: 1 |
270 is the laser of death.
God bless Texas----------------------- Old 300 I will remain what i am until the day I die- A HUNTER......Sitting Bull Its not how you pick the booger.. but where you put it !! Roger V Hunter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2004
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Does Lapua make a Scenar in .277" dia? I THINK NOT!!!
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179 |
Does Lapua make a Scenar in .277" dia? I THINK NOT!!!
Amazing that the 270 still exists without a βscenarβ, wow. Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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