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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
So, I'll ask again, since you evaded the first time: Why would an intelligent designer give us (humans, gorillas, and chimpanzees), the gene for manufacturing vitamin C, then turn that gene off so it didn't funtion? If he didn't want us to have that ability, why not just leave that gene out altogether?


That’s why I asked you as to exactly where in the Bible it became believable to you because my point, and the answer to your question is contained in Genesis.


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Originally Posted by JoeBob
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
So, I'll ask again, since you evaded the first time: Why would an intelligent designer give us (humans, gorillas, and chimpanzees), the gene for manufacturing vitamin C, then turn that gene off so it didn't function? If he didn't want us to have that ability, why not just leave that gene out altogether?


That’s why I asked you as to exactly where in the Bible it became believable to you because my point, and the answer to your question is contained in Genesis.

I said I believe what it says, i.e., that God created the heaven and the earth, and commanded the waters and the earth to bring forth all the living creatures. What's confusing you?

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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by JoeBob
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
So, I'll ask again, since you evaded the first time: Why would an intelligent designer give us (humans, gorillas, and chimpanzees), the gene for manufacturing vitamin C, then turn that gene off so it didn't function? If he didn't want us to have that ability, why not just leave that gene out altogether?


That’s why I asked you as to exactly where in the Bible it became believable to you because my point, and the answer to your question is contained in Genesis.

I said I believe what it says, i.e., that God created the heaven and the earth, and commanded the waters and the earth to bring forth all the living creatures. What's confusing you?


I’m not the one who is confused. The answer to your question is there...IF you believe it.

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So you're not going to answer? Okay. Smart.

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The natural processes ordained by God after the fall include death and disease and sickness. In order for that to happen natural processes will fall short of perfection..
Ahem just like the Bible says.

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Originally Posted by Thunderstick


This is evidence that there is a better statistical chance of converting an evolutionist to the truth then there is for spontaneous evolutionary processes to bring forth life.



There is no evidence for magical creation. All the evidence supports evolution even though all its mechanisms are not fully understood. A small percentage of creationists/Intelligent design claimants does not refute evolution or establish a case for creationism.


''The statement, of course, is widely and misleadingly cited by creationists as evidence for the claim that there is a genuine scientific controversy over evolution''

''There are also connections with creationism in its traditional forms, starting with the editor-in-chief, Matti Leisola. He is identified by BIO-Complexity as “a professor of Bioprocess Engineering at Aalto University (previously Helsinki University of Technology).” Unmentioned, however, is the fact that he is evidently a dyed-in-thewool creationist, having spoken on his “30 years as a non-evolutionist” at the 8th European Creationist Conference (Anonymous 2003), being described by Creation Ministries International as a biblical creationist (Wieland 2009), and having told a Finnish Christian youth magazine that evolution “is basically a heresy”

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Originally Posted by Thunderstick
The natural processes ordained by God after the fall include death and disease and sickness. In order for that to happen natural processes will fall short of perfection..
Ahem just like the Bible says.

So, as a result of the fall of Adam, God turned that gene off in human beings, gorillas, and chimpanzees? Why those three? Other animals, those less directly in our line of descent, are still able to synthesize vitamin C, even other primates. Just not the higher primates that are so closely related to us. Is it just a coincidence that the fall of Adam hit us three in the same exact way, and left other species alone?

I suspect not. I suspect that we all three have the same defect in our vitamin C synthesizing gene because we are close cousin species with a fairly recent common ancestor that lived around ten million years ago that acquired a mutated vitamin C synthesizing gene, i.e., one that got turned off by a mutation we all three inherited. Man, the chimpanzee, and the gorilla, all inherited it from that common ancestor species.

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Originally Posted by Thunderstick
Originally Posted by RatherBHuntin
Hot off the presses.....
http://dlvr.it/RBhsgt



Renowned Yale Prof Leaves Darwinism, Says Intelligent Design ‘Absolutely Serious’ Theory


Looks like someone is thinking intelligently from a well ordered mind.



Except for creationists, nobody takes intelligent design seriously. It had its chance to prove its merit and legitimacy in court and failed. It's not even a theory. It's conjecture, or at best, a hypothesis.

Abstract
''This article reviews two standard criticisms of creationism/intelligent design (ID)): it is unfalsifiable, and it is refuted by the many imperfect adaptations found in nature. Problems with both criticisms are discussed. A conception of testability is described that avoids the defects in Karl Popper's falsifiability criterion. Although ID comes in multiple forms, which call for different criticisms, it emerges that ID fails to constitute a serious alternative to evolutionary theory.''

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The natural processes ordained by God after the fall include death and disease and sickness. In order for that to happen natural processes will fall short of perfection..
Ahem just like the Bible says.

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Originally Posted by Thunderstick
The natural processes ordained by God after the fall include death and disease and sickness. In order for that to happen natural processes will fall short of perfection..
Ahem just like the Bible says.

Yeah, but why the anthropoid primates, and not other primates like gibbons? In fact most animals retain it. Mainly it's just the anthropoid primates that lost it, indicating a common ancestor that was the starting point of the loss, so the capacity to synthesize vitamin C could no longer pass on to any of the branches that followed after, including gorillas, chimpanzees, and humans. It follows a pattern that's telling, and indicates something quite distinct from the notion that each anthropoid primate was a special creation, not related to the rest.

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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
God created the heaven and the earth, and commanded the waters and the earth to bring forth all the living creatures.



God also created the creatures of the sea, birds of the air and every land creature.( and then nature took over from there- as in multiplying)


Gen. 1:21-22. AKJV
21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind,
and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22 "And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

Gen 1:25 AKJV
"And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth
after his kind: and God saw that it was good."


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Originally Posted by Starman
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
God created the heaven and the earth, and commanded the waters and the earth to bring forth all the living creatures.



God also created the creatures of the sea, birds of the air and every land creature.( and then nature took over from there- as in multiplying)


Gen. 1:21-22. AKJV
21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind,
and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22 "And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

Gen 1:25 AKJV
"And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth
after his kind: and God saw that it was good."
If Hadrian first described how he commanded his engineers to construct a wall along a certain line, and then later simply stated that he made the wall, everyone understands what's meant, and that there's no contradiction between those two statements. After all, there would be no wall there had Hadrian not commanded it be built.

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Reading out Genesis 1 to a bunch of illiterate peasant mythological minded hebrews from thousands of years,
how would they interpret it?

"God created"


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Originally Posted by Starman
Reading out Genesis 1 to a bunch of illiterate peasant mythological minded hebrews from thousands of years,
how would they interpret it?

"God created"

He did, since he made everything they're made of, and they wouldn't exist if he hadn't commanded that they be brought forth.

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Where was God before he made everything?


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Originally Posted by Thunderstick
Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter
Once again, since we have identified the human genome, and can now read the genes of archeological remains many thousands of years in age. We have identified multiple cases of beneficial mutations causing increased brain capacity and survival oriented physiology.

The most recent and glaring occasion being the rise of lactose tolerance. In several places, in several locations in Africa, The Middle East, And in Europe, over the last 20,000 years different mutations have arisen. Each mutation produced a different gene, but each time the gene caused the body to produce Lactase through adulthood.

Lactose tolerance turned out to be a very important survival factor, and quickly spread through continental populations.

Meyer seems to claim the chance of such a beneficial mutation occurring once is so infinitesimally small as to be impossible. So how did it happen three different times in three discrete populations?


I think your example is not the case which is in question. There is no dispute about a specie adapting to its environment. The evidence lacking is for a situation where mutations are required to -- say evolve the ape into a man.


If multiple beneficial mutations can be observed over the course 20 millennia with very light survival pressure. Why would it be wrong to assume that a population would gain at least 15,000 times as many beneficial mutations in a 15,000 times longer period of time? Especially under extreme survival pressure such as Ice ages coming and going? The environment fluctuating between frigid cold and back to tropical heat?


People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Originally Posted by Starman


Where was God before he made everything?

Who knows? Why would you expect to know that? Maybe one day you can ask him.

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It's a nonsense question he's pulled before.


The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh

Which explains a lot.
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catholics accusing others of nonsense, TFF.


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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by Starman


Where was God before he made everything?

Who knows? Why would you expect to know that? Maybe one day you can ask him.


would God not be in the same place now?...or did he have some reason to move?

Do you know where God is now?


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