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Joined: May 2017
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I still can’t think of a good reason to pick a .270 Win over a ..308W.... all BS aside.
Life Member NRA, RMEF, American Legion, MAGA. Not necessarily in that order.
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
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The 308 is no 30-06. But, it accomplishes the task. The 30-06 is no 300 WSM. But, it accomplishes the task.
Etc.
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country." Robert E. Lee
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2005
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The whole 270 vs 30 caliber thing is why I shoot a 280 a lot. It's for people who can't make up their mind...... I made up my mind when I was 17 there would never be a 270 in my arsenal, ever. I own 280’s & 308’s.
"...A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box..." Frederick Douglass, 1867
( . Y . )
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Joined: May 2017
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2017
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I got tired of all the Cactus Jack bullsheit years ago. Not from Mr. OConnor, but from all the dweebs who pretended to know his mind. Flame on.....
Life Member NRA, RMEF, American Legion, MAGA. Not necessarily in that order.
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Joined: Sep 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179 |
I still can’t think of a good reason to pick a .270 Win over a ..308W.... all BS aside. I haven’t owned a 308 in several years. I don’t know any reason to get another..... all bs aside. Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Joined: Mar 2007
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,097 |
That man has some very good educational information, but due to the differences in shear and tensile properties of paper, the method of testing in phonebooks is not demonstrative of wound channels in living tissue. Then you have guys who do water jug tests, that do not simulate living tissue and provide no modeling for permanent wound channels.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651 |
That man has some very good educational information, but due to the differences in shear and tensile properties of paper, the method of testing in phonebooks is not demonstrative of wound channels in living tissue. Then you have guys who do water jug tests, that do not simulate living tissue and provide no modeling for permanent wound channels. For my testing, put me in the water jug camp for a variety of reasons. 1. They are quick and easy to prepare. 2. They are cheap. Mine are free since they would otherwise be in the trash. 3. They are very consistent as a test medium. 4. Bullets that expand or come apart or fail to expand in water often behave the same in flesh. I have identical bullets taken from flesh and water jugs and they look very much alike. I've also had bullets come apart in both water and flesh. You say water jug tests " provide no modeling for permanent wound channels", That is true enough if you want to measure wound channels, but if you just want to get an idea of a load's potential to do damage, water jugs can help. In my experience a bullet that explosively destroys more water jugs also leaves larger wound channels. Some loads I've tested have blown up the first jug but just left entrance and exit holes leaking in the remainder of the jugs. Probably an indicator those loads would not leave wide wound channels. Personally, I don't care for wet or dry paper or dirt/clay/sawdust as a test medium - or even gelatin for that matter. None are identical to flesh and all are much more work than water jugs. Gelatin is great for the lab, but I don't shoot in a lab. When it comes to flesh, there is also a big difference. A bullet that takes down an antelope with authority may not do so well on larger game. Had hoped to do a big water jug shoot this year but life got in the way. I probably have close to 100, but they will keep until next spring or summer.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,315
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,315 |
That man has some very good educational information, but due to the differences in shear and tensile properties of paper, the method of testing in phonebooks is not demonstrative of wound channels in living tissue. Then you have guys who do water jug tests, that do not simulate living tissue and provide no modeling for permanent wound channels. For my testing, put me in the water jug camp for a variety of reasons. 1. They are quick and easy to prepare. 2. They are cheap. Mine are free since they would otherwise be in the trash. 3. They are very consistent as a test medium. 4. Bullets that expand or come apart or fail to expand in water often behave the same in flesh. I have identical bullets taken from flesh and water jugs and they look very much alike. I've also had bullets come apart in both water and flesh. You say water jug tests " provide no modeling for permanent wound channels", That is true enough if you want to measure wound channels, but if you just want to get an idea of a load's potential to do damage, water jugs can help. In my experience a bullet that explosively destroys more water jugs also leaves larger wound channels. Some loads I've tested have blown up the first jug but just left entrance and exit holes leaking in the remainder of the jugs. Probably an indicator those loads would not leave wide wound channels. Personally, I don't care for wet or dry paper or dirt/clay/sawdust as a test medium - or even gelatin for that matter. None are identical to flesh and all are much more work than water jugs. Gelatin is great for the lab, but I don't shoot in a lab. When it comes to flesh, there is also a big difference. A bullet that takes down an antelope with authority may not do so well on larger game. Had hoped to do a big water jug shoot this year but life got in the way. I probably have close to 100, but they will keep until next spring or summer. Very well put. It's not perfect, but it is consistent. Bullet to bullet.
"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,150 Likes: 11
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,150 Likes: 11 |
Mebbe you fellas shooting water jugs should put some bones in them just for grins.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,305
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,305 |
Mebbe you fellas shooting water jugs should put some bones in them just for grins. I am a water jug guy as well, not because I think it perfectly replicates any animal but it gives us all the same playing field we can all cheaply and easily compare bullets to. Not infallible by any means but usually if a bullet will take a point blank shot into the jugs and not fall to pieces, I haven’t seen it do it in animals yet. The dry media is pretty cool though, may try building a box or something in the future for that and stack old paper in there. Till then I will keep hammering the milk jugs.
Semper Fi
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,315
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,315 |
The only pulp media I liked was wet. Then you have a monumental mess to clean up. Wet too. Dry paper is quite abrasive to my way of thinking.
"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,369
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,369 |
I love you guys. These threads always talk me out of buying a new rifle. Given I have a M700 in 280, I don't need a 270 or a 308 or a 30-06...
but I have a hankering for a Steyr Pro Hunter in 308...
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,896 Likes: 1 |
Given I have a M700 in 280, I don't need a 270 or a 308 or a 30-06.... Amen. I have enough 280’s to supply each member of my family. I am, by no means, opposed to the 30 GOVT. Just wouldn’t own one.
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country." Robert E. Lee
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,282
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,282 |
Cartridges are more alike than different...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,896 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,896 Likes: 1 |
Cartridges are more alike than different...
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country." Robert E. Lee
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Joined: Sep 2017
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I've shot a lot of water filled milk jugs, but I had my video camera filming them for later viewing. I also shot those 5 gallon plastic water filled cubes and compared a NP to an Interlock and filmed that one. Snow filled boxes caught some bullets, but as written before tied together phone books gave me a consistent media that I could compare one bullet to another in the same stack. Then number, note and save just the covers without all the paper mess. Back when I was shooting a .308 for my deer hunting, a big surprise was the difference in expansion in a Remington 180 grain round nose Core-Lokt vs. a 180 grain Pointed Core-Lokt through the same stack of phone books. That round nose was punching a thumb size hole out of the first book's cover and the pointed bullet took three to have a similar size exit. The round nose penetrated a couple of books less as well. Our deer camp never lost a deer hit anywhere with that Remington round nose Core-Lokt. Some years back Handloader ran an article of 180 grain .30 caliber expanded bullets. I contacted the author and ordered a poster showing all those bullets side by side. Of the 38 different bullets tested in 100 fps increments from 3100 down to 1400 fps three bullets each, that Remington round nose Core-Lokt was the only one on the entire poster that expanded with a nice mushroom shape, never lost its core at every velocity from 3100 down to 1400 fps.
Some of our agricultural deer shooters are missing what could be a real learning opportunity for lots of us. They could be photographing the exit wounds of deer shot with different bullets.
My other auto is a .45
The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory
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Campfire Tracker
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The 308 will have better resale value.
The 270 is slowly dying in the used gun market, while the 308 is the biggest selling centerfire cartridge in the world, I believe.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing -- Edmund Burke
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,418
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,418 |
Personally, I have yet to buy much of anything for resale. Selling my hunting rifles would be a challenge, especially the synthetic stocked ones....never know, it could of been used as a Jack handle . I prefer the .308 Jack handle over the .270 Jack handle...just have too much respect for the .270 wcf.
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Joined: Dec 2012
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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The 308 will have better resale value.
The 270 is slowly dying in the used gun market, while the 308 is the biggest selling centerfire cartridge in the world, I believe.
A link or two to your source(s), would be interesting.
"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
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270 is the laser of death. My experience with it confirms this as true. Of all my rifles it has a better record of DRT kills than all the rest.
What goes up must come down, what goes around comes around, there's no free lunch. Trump's comin' back, get over it!
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