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Originally Posted by Gus
scanning the environment is worthwhile.

And yet we miss so much. Not long ago an asteroid capable of doing significant damage whizzed by at astronomically close range and we didn't see it coming. Which may be reassuring to those who said they don't want to see it coming on the how do you want to die thread.


The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh

Which explains a lot.

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Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by nighthawk
With the universe being about 6,000 years old there;s not much time to play with. God added in stars that appear to be of different ages just to fool you infidels. wink


A couple years ago there was a non-creationist astronomer on TV who developed a program to plot novas and super novas. His program could track the debris up to about a million years. He enlisted the aid of astronomers from around the world to use his program. After a few years the oldest they could find was about 7,000 years since its destruction. Maybe one of you evolutionists could fill them in on the missing years.

Or is it you guys are not accepting facts.

Like I asked, If there was an Infinite Intelligent Energy Being could He create what we now see in its present state? This is not a trick question. And its more philosophical than science or religion.


I don't reply to unattributed quackdoodles. But for your information, the Veil Nebula (a supernova remnant) is older than that.


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Originally Posted by Gus
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
[Linked Image]


looking like a case of extra-terrestrial bioengineering, given how rapid the changes were occurring?

well, i know that's a minority view not in keeping with current thinking of god, nor of pure scientific evolution.

but who knows? just because there's a majority view(s), and miniority view(s), where does that leave us?

i'd suggest that in the movement of increased brain size, might there be yet an even larger brained individual just around the corner?


Gus,

Lets see your evidence supporting the Alien Bio-engineering hypothesis.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by IndyCA35
Why do educated people believe the evidence of evolution and uneducated people believe pre-literate myths that have been proven not to be true?

Being uneducated should not be a requirement for being a Christian.

Talking snakes, 6000 year old universes, worldwide floods? None of this has anything to do with the message of Jesus. Or with reality.

Not to mention Ringman's feeble attempts to explain gas pressure vs. gravity. While those who believe this drivel are sincere, they are more to be pitied than censured.



Jesus quoted Genesis more than any other book. It has lots "to do with the message of Jesus."


If Jesus believed in the "miracles" of Genesis, he was simply wrong. After all, he never made any claim to understanding science, anthropology, or biology,


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Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by nighthawk
With the universe being about 6,000 years old there;s not much time to play with. God added in stars that appear to be of different ages just to fool you infidels. wink


A couple years ago there was a non-creationist astronomer on TV who developed a program to plot novas and super novas. His program could track the debris up to about a million years. He enlisted the aid of astronomers from around the world to use his program. After a few years the oldest they could find was about 7,000 years since its destruction. Maybe one of you evolutionists could fill them in on the missing years.

Or is it you guys are not accepting facts.

Like I asked, If there was an Infinite Intelligent Energy Being could He create what we now see in its present state? This is not a trick question. And its more philosophical than science or religion.


Got a link to a reputable source?

How about a link to a peer review article in a real journal such as Nature?


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Originally Posted by IndyCA35
Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by IndyCA35
Why do educated people believe the evidence of evolution and uneducated people believe pre-literate myths that have been proven not to be true?

Being uneducated should not be a requirement for being a Christian.

Talking snakes, 6000 year old universes, worldwide floods? None of this has anything to do with the message of Jesus. Or with reality.

Not to mention Ringman's feeble attempts to explain gas pressure vs. gravity. While those who believe this drivel are sincere, they are more to be pitied than censured.



Jesus quoted Genesis more than any other book. It has lots "to do with the message of Jesus."


If Jesus believed in the "miracles" of Genesis, he was simply wrong. After all, he never made any claim to understanding science, anthropology, or biology,


He even preached against washing one's hands before eating, so no, not a sound scientific source.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Gus
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
[Linked Image]


looking like a case of extra-terrestrial bioengineering, given how rapid the changes were occurring?

well, i know that's a minority view not in keeping with current thinking of god, nor of pure scientific evolution.

but who knows? just because there's a majority view(s), and miniority view(s), where does that leave us?

i'd suggest that in the movement of increased brain size, might there be yet an even larger brained individual just around the corner?


Gus,

Lets see your evidence supporting the Alien Bio-engineering hypothesis.


i'll have to fold under the challenge of the people who want facts.

facts: we are headed Back to the moon. landers on Mars.

preparing for a return to the moon, and maybe a space colony on Mars? don't know yet.

please don't stay couped up in a box, if with an appropriate calf's head, one can break out?

the High Priests at NASA have been head & shoulders above the rest.


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If you could cut through the malarkey on this thread, it would be much shorter.


These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by wabigoon
I am not about to worship science. My God does not change.


Of course he's changed.

Introduction of Satan after the Jews spent some time in Babylon.

Old Testament vs. New. That's a HUGE change.

From stoning homosexuals to the many churches that now cater to them.

Christianity's been evolving since before it started.


Not to mention that at one time God had many sons. (See the Book of Job).

At first, God spoke to humans in their own language.

Later, God lived atop a high mountain which his followers could see from far away.

Still later, the spirit of God resided in a box made of gopher wood. After the ark was destroyed, God was spoken to inside of a large temple in Jerusalem, where only self-appointed priests could go.

When the Romans destroyed the temple, we evolved the concept of God being everywhere.

Then, after Christianity, Christianity split into many denominations who believe the other denominations are heretics.

We complicate religion with too many useless details and myths. When Rabbi Hillel, 2000 years ago, was asked if he could recite the entire Talmud while standing on one leg, he stood on one leg and said, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. All else is merely commentary."


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Originally Posted by Fubarski
Takes the same degree of faith to believe the parables and prophecies put forth in various theological texts, as it does to believe the parables and prophecies put forth in support of the theory of evolution.



That's the fallacy of equivocation for you. Ignoring both evidence and the absence of evidence in an attempt to justify a belief that lacks justification to the point of demonstrating the worthlessness of the foundation of religious belief, faith, as a means of sorting fact from fiction.....implying that there is no such thing as factual information or evidence, that all is taken on 'faith' and is therefore of equal value. Which is about an absurd a claim that it is possible to make.

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Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by DBT
The state and condition a star is observed to be in tells you what stage of life they are in, a red giant for example is a star that has used most of its hydrogen and has expanded to a more diffuse state, cooler surface, etc. Google 'young star formation regions' to get pictures and information on stars forming withn clouds of hydrogen.



So you don't know.


I happen to know, I even do a bit of amateur astronomy, star gazing using a Maksitov reflector, the problem is that you are not willing to consider what I say or what I explain.

That's why you should educate yourself by looking at the evidence of star formation for yourself. Not just telescope pictures of star nurseries and star formation but the physics driving star formation, the nuclear process, fusion, hydrogen to helium, etc, by which stars go through the stages of their lifecycles and how this is observed by astronomers and astrophysicists.


How many stars have you seen form while you watched? O yea. None. Theoretically it take longer than several life times.

Tell us again how the first life appeared. O yea. No one knows.

Your faith is the unseen and untestable is fantastic. Too bad it's in yourself instead of the Lasting God.


You can see stars in the process of formation, just as you can see stars in the last stages of their life cycles.

Below is W3, deemed to be one of the most active factories of massive stars in our entire galaxy, home to a glob of stellar mass many hundred thousand times the mass of our Sun:

[Linked Image]

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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper

The bible has no evidence foundation equal to the fossil and DNA evidence supporting the theory of evolution by natural selection.


Even worse than there beiing no evidence for the creation events in Genesis, ther is SUBSTANTIAL evidence that they did not and cannot have occurred.

For instance, snakes do not have a Broca's organ, a hyoid bone, or a voice box. Snakes don't talk (to Eve or anyone else).

The earth is proven beyond doubt to be much older than 6,000 years.

There are many "missing links" between ancient life forms, whose lifetimes we can date well, and modern ones, including humans. (Some poster tried to discredit evolution by saying a pig's tooth was mistaken for a hominid. Well, so what? There are many thousands of fossil hominid teeth.)

The rainbow was NOT created by God after Noah's non-existent flood. Rainbows are a natural (and necessary) consequence of electromagnetic radiation (including light). Wihout electromagnetism, there could have been no universe in the first place.

I could go on.


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Ringman clings to every straw he can find to pretend evolution did not occur. Why?

He says that just because star formation and evolution take a long time, and we cannot see the process from beginning to end, it cannot happen.

Suppose Ringman went out in the woods for 20 minutes before hunting season to see if there were deer in the area. Suppose he saw deer trails, lots of deer tracks, buck rubs on every other sapling, deer droppings, and smelled deer urine? Would he conclude there were no deer because he hadn't seen any in 20 minutes?

I will ask again. Does Christianity have to be so dumbed down that only those with low intelligence or little education are allowed in?

I don't think that was the original intent.


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These things go sideways pretty quickly.
From my perspective Religion is not faith, faith is not something you can force on another , if you are feeling pressured from it , you either are not open at the time or the messanger is false
Nothing explains human consciousness , our ability to examine ourselves . So how did thought begin?
It is a fair question

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Originally Posted by comerade
These things go sideways pretty quickly.
From my perspective Religion is not faith, faith is not something you can force on another , if you are feeling pressured from it , you either are not open at the time or the messanger is false
Nothing explains human consciousness , our ability to examine ourselves . So how did thought begin?
It is a fair question


a very fair question.

if one can't think about god, then what's the issue?

i personally suspect that our ability to examine ourselves didn't come from evolution?


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Originally Posted by BOWSINGER
Originally Posted by Campsterpoor
Such deliberation is not needed, rather does it needs to be over flogged. Only a fool will think we are all alone in this universe. that is where to start all this from.
Now, Call it what you want, Religion, Magik or Science but all these thing were created/made by an entity, God or what anyone wants to believe.
The Universe is fat too complicated to be existing by chance, the possibility of the chances that will take for the universe to form itself all by itself without an original vaccum so absolutely impossible.
As a Christian i belive GOD made all things possible. Science can't understand God and that where the problem lies.


“It is all a matter of time scale. An event that would be unthinkable in a hundred years may be inevitable in a hundred million.
For as long as there been humans we have searched for our place in the cosmos. Where are we? Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a hum-drum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people.
This perspective is a courageous continuation of our penchant for constructing and testing mental models of the skies; the Sun as a red-hot stone, the stars as a celestial flame, the Galaxy as the backbone of night.” Carl Sagan



“If a Creator God exists, would He or She or It... prefer a kind of sodden blockhead who worships while understanding nothing? Or would He prefer His votaries to admire the real universe in all its intricacy?Science is, at least in part, informed worship.” Carl


Leo of the Land of Dyr

NRA FOR LIFE

I MISS SARAH

“In Trump We Trust.” Right????

SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."












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Originally Posted by comerade
These things go sideways pretty quickly.
From my perspective Religion is not faith, faith is not something you can force on another , if you are feeling pressured from it , you either are not open at the time or the messanger is false
Nothing explains human consciousness , our ability to examine ourselves . So how did thought begin?
It is a fair question


Faith as defined as a belief held without the support of evidence is faith regardless of anyone's perspective.

Thought, as the evidence tells us, is an electrochemical activity of a brain, which can be altered chemically and with the application of current to brain regions....producing fear, love, anxiety, involuntary movements, etc, (Delgado, et al).

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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye

Jesus quoted Genesis more than any other book. It has lots "to do with the message of Jesus."


" And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,


Did that really happen, too?[/quote]

Get it?


"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
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Originally Posted by IndyCA35
Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by nighthawk
With the universe being about 6,000 years old there;s not much time to play with. God added in stars that appear to be of different ages just to fool you infidels. wink


A couple years ago there was a non-creationist astronomer on TV who developed a program to plot novas and super novas. His program could track the debris up to about a million years. He enlisted the aid of astronomers from around the world to use his program. After a few years the oldest they could find was about 7,000 years since its destruction. Maybe one of you evolutionists could fill them in on the missing years.

Or is it you guys are not accepting facts.

Like I asked, If there was an Infinite Intelligent Energy Being could He create what we now see in its present state? This is not a trick question. And its more philosophical than science or religion.


I don't reply to unattributed quackdoodles. But for your information, the Veil Nebula (a supernova remnant) is older than that.



How do you know? What is the dating system you used?


"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
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Originally Posted by IndyCA35
Ringman clings to every straw he can find to pretend evolution did not occur. Why?

He says that just because star formation and evolution take a long time, and we cannot see the process from beginning to end, it cannot happen.

Suppose Ringman went out in the woods for 20 minutes before hunting season to see if there were deer in the area. Suppose he saw deer trails, lots of deer tracks, buck rubs on every other sapling, deer droppings, and smelled deer urine? Would he conclude there were no deer because he hadn't seen any in 20 minutes?

I will ask again. Does Christianity have to be so dumbed down that only those with low intelligence or little education are allowed in?

I don't think that was the original intent.





That is an excellent parable (analogy, but I am trying to be more biblical).

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