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Oops,page bounce. Reply to That is a very general and very superficial definition. I would say belief without epistemological proof. That does not exclude evidence but merely indicates the insufficiency of evidence to constitute a proof.
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Which explains a lot.
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Oops,page bounce. Reply to That is a very general and very superficial definition... How would illiterate superstitious Middle East peasants from thousands of years ago view faith as being defined by? you know before hyper convoluted Catholic theologians got into the game? How complex -and in-depth does faith have to be?
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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[quote=MILES58][quote=Thunderstick]
I carefully chose my wording and used these terms--theism--morality--equality--religious liberty. I did not say that any particular religion should be state established and would be opposed to that--because that inevitably leads to another form of suppression. What I promoted is exactly what our founders promoted. Do you agree with the founding principles of our country--All men are created equal and endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights? You cannot form a society on an amoral foundation or you will have an amoral and immoral society.
As bad as all the religious persecution has been, and it has been horrible, societies founded on atheism or evolution or the two in combination have been exponentially worse in their suppression and persecution. .
Name a society that is or was based on evolution? Name a society that is or was based on atheism? There have been societies that have represses religion, but that is not atheism. Karl Marx said "Religion is the opium of the people".[1] Marx also stated: "Communism begins from the outset (Owen) with atheism; but atheism is at first far from being communism; indeed, that atheism is still mostly an abstraction."[2] Vladimir Lenin similarly wrote regarding atheism and Communism: "A Marxist must be a materialist, i. e., an enemy of religion, but a dialectical materialist, i. e., one who treats the struggle against religion not in an abstract way, not on the basis of remote, purely theoretical, never varying preaching, but in a concrete way, on the basis of the class struggle which is going on in practice and is educating the masses more and better than anything else could."[3] Friedrich Engels wrote of atheistic evolutionism and Communism: "Just as Darwin discovered the law of development of organic nature, so Marx discovered law of development of human history."[4] In 1955, Chinese Communist leader Zhou Enlai declared, "We Communists are atheists".[5] In 2014, the Communist Party of China reaffirmed that members of their party must be atheists.[6] See also: China and atheism In 2016, the International Business Times reported: “ A senior Chinese advisor on religious affairs has said the country should promote atheism throughout society, in remarks that appear to reflect a deepening campaign to reinforce traditional Marxist values in China — and could add to concern about official attitudes among believers in the country’s five officially recognized religions.[7] ” In 2014, the New American website indicated: “ The Communist Party of China (CPC) is letting its members know that the party’s official adherence to militant atheism has not changed; Party members are not allowed to be Christians, or to hold any other religious beliefs. That is the clear message sent by a top Party official in an editorial published on November 14 in the Global Times, the international version of People’s Daily, the official newspaper and mouthpiece of the CPC.[8] 1. Marx, Karl. 1976. Introduction to A Contribution to the Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right. Marx-Engels Collected Works, vol. 3. New York. 2. Marx, Karl. Private Property and Communism, 1844. 3. Lenin, Vladimir Ilyich. The Attitude of the Workers' Party to Religion, 1909. 4. Engels, Friedrich. "Karl Marx's Funeral", Marx-Engels Collected Works, vol. 24, p. 467. 5. Noebel, David, The Battle for Truth, Harvest House, 2001. 6. China’s Communist Party Reaffirms Marxism, Maoism, Atheism, New American, 2014 7. China's Communist Party Bans Believers, Doubles Down On Atheism 8. Senior Chinese Religious Advisor Calls For Promotion Of Atheism In Society, International Business Times Your post is primarily about communism and atheism. Atheism and evolution are not exclusive except for those limited to a literal interpretation of the Bible.
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First I am positive Russell Humphries knows a lot more about astronomy and astrophysics than you.
First of all, Russell Humphreys (you spelled it wrong) is not a real scientist. He is employed by the Creation Science Institute. I cannot find any peer reviewed research paper he has ever published. Nor any legitimate cientist not employed by the same bunch who agrees with thim. He's a quack. Second, his theories have been refuted by legitimate scientists. You would not understand the basic reasons, except possibly the one easily refuted by JPL. You can read that one in Wikipedia. JPL has real scientists. They don't believe in talking snakes either. You're telling me his credentials are not real? What school did he get his degrees from, then? As for JPL, I think he is a quack. We are now even.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
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Oops,page bounce. Reply to That is a very general and very superficial definition... How would illiterate superstitious Middle East peasants from thousands of years ago view faith as being defined by? you know before hyper convoluted Catholic theologians got into the game? How complex -and in-depth does faith have to be? Probably as their rabbi told them. (hyper convoluted Catholic theologians? )
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Which explains a lot.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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You think "JPL" is a quack?
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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[quote=MILES58][quote=Thunderstick]
I carefully chose my wording and used these terms--theism--morality--equality--religious liberty. I did not say that any particular religion should be state established and would be opposed to that--because that inevitably leads to another form of suppression. What I promoted is exactly what our founders promoted. Do you agree with the founding principles of our country--All men are created equal and endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights? You cannot form a society on an amoral foundation or you will have an amoral and immoral society.
As bad as all the religious persecution has been, and it has been horrible, societies founded on atheism or evolution or the two in combination have been exponentially worse in their suppression and persecution. .
Name a society that is or was based on evolution? Name a society that is or was based on atheism? There have been societies that have represses religion, but that is not atheism. Karl Marx said "Religion is the opium of the people".[1] Marx also stated: "Communism begins from the outset (Owen) with atheism; but atheism is at first far from being communism; indeed, that atheism is still mostly an abstraction."[2] Vladimir Lenin similarly wrote regarding atheism and Communism: "A Marxist must be a materialist, i. e., an enemy of religion, but a dialectical materialist, i. e., one who treats the struggle against religion not in an abstract way, not on the basis of remote, purely theoretical, never varying preaching, but in a concrete way, on the basis of the class struggle which is going on in practice and is educating the masses more and better than anything else could."[3] Friedrich Engels wrote of atheistic evolutionism and Communism: "Just as Darwin discovered the law of development of organic nature, so Marx discovered law of development of human history."[4] In 1955, Chinese Communist leader Zhou Enlai declared, "We Communists are atheists".[5] In 2014, the Communist Party of China reaffirmed that members of their party must be atheists.[6] See also: China and atheism In 2016, the International Business Times reported: “ A senior Chinese advisor on religious affairs has said the country should promote atheism throughout society, in remarks that appear to reflect a deepening campaign to reinforce traditional Marxist values in China — and could add to concern about official attitudes among believers in the country’s five officially recognized religions.[7] ” In 2014, the New American website indicated: “ The Communist Party of China (CPC) is letting its members know that the party’s official adherence to militant atheism has not changed; Party members are not allowed to be Christians, or to hold any other religious beliefs. That is the clear message sent by a top Party official in an editorial published on November 14 in the Global Times, the international version of People’s Daily, the official newspaper and mouthpiece of the CPC.[8] 1. Marx, Karl. 1976. Introduction to A Contribution to the Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right. Marx-Engels Collected Works, vol. 3. New York. 2. Marx, Karl. Private Property and Communism, 1844. 3. Lenin, Vladimir Ilyich. The Attitude of the Workers' Party to Religion, 1909. 4. Engels, Friedrich. "Karl Marx's Funeral", Marx-Engels Collected Works, vol. 24, p. 467. 5. Noebel, David, The Battle for Truth, Harvest House, 2001. 6. China’s Communist Party Reaffirms Marxism, Maoism, Atheism, New American, 2014 7. China's Communist Party Bans Believers, Doubles Down On Atheism 8. Senior Chinese Religious Advisor Calls For Promotion Of Atheism In Society, International Business Times Your post is primarily about communism and atheism. Atheism and evolution are not exclusive except for those limited to a literal interpretation of the Bible. More specifically, his post are all about Marxist. Not all atheist are Marxist, but Thunderstick doesn't seem to do very well with simple set theory.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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You think "JPL" is a quack?
Maybe Ringman also believes we never traveled to the moon?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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How many bags of popcorn have been eaten since this thread started?
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First I am positive Russell Humphries knows a lot more about astronomy and astrophysics than you.
First of all, Russell Humphreys (you spelled it wrong) is not a real scientist. He is employed by the Creation Science Institute. I cannot find any peer reviewed research paper he has ever published. Nor any legitimate cientist not employed by the same bunch who agrees with thim. He's a quack. Second, his theories have been refuted by legitimate scientists. You would not understand the basic reasons, except possibly the one easily refuted by JPL. You can read that one in Wikipedia. JPL has real scientists. They don't believe in talking snakes either. You're telling me his credentials are not real? What school did he get his degrees from, then? As for JPL, I think he is a quack. We are now even. Nope not even. You're still lost in fairyland. First, JPL is not a "he." It's the NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory. That's the part that launches deep space probes. NASA thinks Humphries is a quack. Second, just because one has a physics degree does not make one knowledgeable about cosmology. Most physicists spend their lives testing different metals for GE. Third, has Humphries ever submitted a paper to a peer reviewed scientific journal like "Nature?" Fourth, does he even belong to or attend the IAU? That makes it four to zero for my side and against creationism. Winning arguments against you on this subject is like stealing candy from a baby.
Don't blame me. I voted for Trump.
Democrats would burn this country to the ground, if they could rule over the ashes.
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Oops,page bounce. Reply to That is a very general and very superficial definition. I would say belief without epistemological proof. That does not exclude evidence but merely indicates the insufficiency of evidence to constitute a proof. It's the essence of faith to believe in spite of having insufficient evidence/justification. That is what it means to have 'faith.'
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So to summarize this thread to date, it looks like the evolutionists have won the debate with the overwhelming abundance of evidence and logic, but the creationists haven't conceded and have attempted diversionary tactics to include the consideration of unfavorable political persuasion as the hallmark of the infidel clan.
Let me know if I got this wrong or not....
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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And there's probably a few like me wondering what the fuss is about, finding evolution and religion not incompatible,
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Which explains a lot.
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Campfire Sage
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And there's probably a few like me wondering what the fuss is about, finding evolution and religion not incompatible, This.
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And there's probably a few like me wondering what the fuss is about, finding evolution and religion not incompatible, If life merges from complex chemical interaction and energy input under the right conditions and evolves thereafter, what need is the for religion as an explanation?
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Exactly. It used to influence politics as well, and cause the death of millions (?) of people because of the conflict of the different religious "brands". Religion never helped the technological advancement of society and always hindered and repressed it. I don't think it offers any real improvement on society anyway - people know what's right and wrong - you don't need to have a religious faith for that (it's been "in-grained" as a behavior that has helped us to survive and develop or evolve). I don't buy a higher purpose or being special / spiritual - we're just smart monkeys really .
Last edited by mauserand9mm; 08/26/19.
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Exchanges with dingyringbatman! Damn this thread! Be like the girls in high school would claim, "I feel I gotta believe in something."
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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And there's probably a few like me wondering what the fuss is about, finding evolution and religion not incompatible, If life merges from complex chemical interaction and energy input under the right conditions and evolves thereafter, what need is the for religion as an explanation? Wrong question, ace. "Religion" is 100% man-made. I believe you meant to say "what need is there for a creator." But I could be wrong.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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One of God's days could be as long as thousands of man's years or more, we do not rightly know.
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And there's probably a few like me wondering what the fuss is about, finding evolution and religion not incompatible, If life merges from complex chemical interaction and energy input under the right conditions and evolves thereafter, what need is the for religion as an explanation? Wrong question, ace. "Religion" is 100% man-made. I believe you meant to say "what need is there for a creator." But I could be wrong. I said exactly what I meant to say, nothing more, nothing less, Chief.
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