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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 28,422 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 28,422 Likes: 6 |
2. Are the LEOs required to keep the guns in good condition, no throwing them in a pl=ile, letting them get rusty, etc.?
Anyone know?
Just my opinion, but no. If they arrived back to you (assuming you get them back) as a pile of rusted metal and broken stocks you'd have to sue the Police Department and prove in court that they were not in that condition when they were confiscated. But in any event you still get to pay for the smashed in door and the funeral for your little shih-tzu who was shot as it barked menacingly from behind your wife's leg at the intruders rushing in screaming "GET THE F*CK DOWN! GET THE F*CK DOWN!".
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery.
Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 15,585 Likes: 8
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 15,585 Likes: 8 |
New Jersey has been screwed up politically and legally for a long time - this is some more of the same. I'll believe it is effective when they take the guns away from Corey Booker and his ilk.
Last edited by CCCC; 08/30/19.
NRA Member - Life, Benefactor, Patron
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,585
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,585 |
In order to end a final order, the original petitioner or the person who had to surrender their firearms can submit a new form to terminate the order. A hearing is then scheduled to evaluate the request before a judge. If the person who surrendered their firearms is making the request without the support of the original petitioner for their removal, they bear the burden of proof to show they are no longer a risk to themselves or others."
In other words you are guilty until proven innocent!
Questions:
1. Does the gun owner get to try to counter the allegations BEFORE they confiscate the guns (or does the gun owner even know about the "due proess/"
2. Are the LEOs required to keep the guns in good condition, no throwing them in a pl=ile, letting them get rusty, etc.?
Anyone know? 1) No. 2) No. They will be piled on the ground, thrown into the back of a truck and tossed into an evidence locker. If you're lucky nobody will engrave an evidence number into each and every one. Oh, you'll be charged for storage. The way RFL's work you're not even Guilty until proven Innocent. First, you're just Guilty, when they hold a "hearing" without you even knowing about it and the judge rubber stamps an order to suspend your Second Amendment rights. Better safe than sorry. Since you've been judged a threat a SWAT team may knock down your door at 4AM, along with news coverage of the "arsenal" and the "thousands of rounds of ammunition" (four bricks of 22) they discovered. Then you get to be Guilty until proven Innocent, at a hearing likely presided by a judge who has already declared you guilty once. All this is not for a crime that has been committed, it's for a crime that someone thinks might be committed. It's all part of the new bigotry. If you own a gun, you are a second class citizen. Due process doesn't apply to you. Presumption of innocence doesn't apply to you. Ex post facto doesn't apply to you. The Second Amendment doesn't apply to anybody.
Last edited by natman; 08/31/19.
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 5,725 Likes: 3
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 5,725 Likes: 3 |
Red flag laws ARE an infringement on the second amendment.
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 615
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 615 |
Wham, you just got elected Judge. Doesn't matter what jurisdiction. A case comes before you: Citizen X's guns have been red-flagged. At the hearing, Witness for the govt. is Citizen X's girlfriend. She testifies that Citizen X has been threatening to shoot up a McDonald's, threatening to shoot her, threatening to shoot her family and then kill himself. Says he sits there all night long cleaning an AR over and over, mumbling about how everyone is out to get him but he is gonna make all of them pay.
Citizen X testifies in his defense: girlfriend is mad because he won't take her on vacation and he has threatened to leave her, but nothing else. He says all of her testimony is BS. He admits to owning a confiscated AR and a thousand rounds of ammo. Says he got a good deal on bulk ammo and he likes to go to the range.
Alright Judge, what you gonna do? This is a simplistic scenario but I think we all know what the Judge is gonna do: err on the side of caution. The side of caution is confiscation. Always will be... Wham, you just got elected judge. You live in a jurisdiction where fifty percent of the males have an AR, seventy five percent of households have some kind of firearm and 2,000 rounds is just enough for a couple afternoons at the river. Deer season is coming soon and you know that the state rifle association will want the stats of all the red flags you’ve granted. There are no social media posts backing her assertions. No evidence of drug use. And a clean criminal record and no mental health issues. You don’t want an opponent in the next election who says that you aren’t concerned enough with second amendment rights. Now what do you do? I agree with most of your posts and reasonings about these red flag laws JoeBob but have to disagree here. I think if it comes down to it a judge is going to rule on the side of caution just like we know they do when a PFA is written. All it takes is an ex girlfriend or wife with an ax to grind (or I guess anyone in general in the case of red flag laws) and your firearms are gone for a while...
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,585
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,585 |
Wham, you just got elected Judge. Doesn't matter what jurisdiction. A case comes before you: Citizen X's guns have been red-flagged. At the hearing, Witness for the govt. is Citizen X's girlfriend. She testifies that Citizen X has been threatening to shoot up a McDonald's, threatening to shoot her, threatening to shoot her family and then kill himself. Says he sits there all night long cleaning an AR over and over, mumbling about how everyone is out to get him but he is gonna make all of them pay.
Citizen X testifies in his defense: girlfriend is mad because he won't take her on vacation and he has threatened to leave her, but nothing else. He says all of her testimony is BS. He admits to owning a confiscated AR and a thousand rounds of ammo. Says he got a good deal on bulk ammo and he likes to go to the range.
Alright Judge, what you gonna do? This is a simplistic scenario but I think we all know what the Judge is gonna do: err on the side of caution. The side of caution is confiscation. Always will be... Wham, you just got elected judge. You live in a jurisdiction where fifty percent of the males have an AR, seventy five percent of households have some kind of firearm and 2,000 rounds is just enough for a couple afternoons at the river. Deer season is coming soon and you know that the state rifle association will want the stats of all the red flags you’ve granted. There are no social media posts backing her assertions. No evidence of drug use. And a clean criminal record and no mental health issues. You don’t want an opponent in the next election who says that you aren’t concerned enough with second amendment rights. Now what do you do? It's an interesting speculation, but Red Flag Laws don't get passed in jurisdictions like that. At least not yet.
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 5,553 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 5,553 Likes: 2 |
About a year ago, 16 people were shot in Trenton, NJ on one night during two different shootings including one fatality. The first thing that Gov. Murphy said was "we need better gun laws"! I guess they were fighting over who got to sell hot dogs on a particular street corner!
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,833 Likes: 9
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,833 Likes: 9 |
Wham, you just got elected Judge. Doesn't matter what jurisdiction. A case comes before you: Citizen X's guns have been red-flagged. At the hearing, Witness for the govt. is Citizen X's girlfriend. She testifies that Citizen X has been threatening to shoot up a McDonald's, threatening to shoot her, threatening to shoot her family and then kill himself. Says he sits there all night long cleaning an AR over and over, mumbling about how everyone is out to get him but he is gonna make all of them pay.
Citizen X testifies in his defense: girlfriend is mad because he won't take her on vacation and he has threatened to leave her, but nothing else. He says all of her testimony is BS. He admits to owning a confiscated AR and a thousand rounds of ammo. Says he got a good deal on bulk ammo and he likes to go to the range.
Alright Judge, what you gonna do? This is a simplistic scenario but I think we all know what the Judge is gonna do: err on the side of caution. The side of caution is confiscation. Always will be... Wham, you just got elected judge. You live in a jurisdiction where fifty percent of the males have an AR, seventy five percent of households have some kind of firearm and 2,000 rounds is just enough for a couple afternoons at the river. Deer season is coming soon and you know that the state rifle association will want the stats of all the red flags you’ve granted. There are no social media posts backing her assertions. No evidence of drug use. And a clean criminal record and no mental health issues. You don’t want an opponent in the next election who says that you aren’t concerned enough with second amendment rights. Now what do you do? It's an interesting speculation, but Red Flag Laws don't get passed in jurisdictions like that. At least not yet. They get passed as the state level. But they are implemented at the local/county level.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,585
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,585 |
Wham, you just got elected Judge. Doesn't matter what jurisdiction. A case comes before you: Citizen X's guns have been red-flagged. At the hearing, Witness for the govt. is Citizen X's girlfriend. She testifies that Citizen X has been threatening to shoot up a McDonald's, threatening to shoot her, threatening to shoot her family and then kill himself. Says he sits there all night long cleaning an AR over and over, mumbling about how everyone is out to get him but he is gonna make all of them pay.
Citizen X testifies in his defense: girlfriend is mad because he won't take her on vacation and he has threatened to leave her, but nothing else. He says all of her testimony is BS. He admits to owning a confiscated AR and a thousand rounds of ammo. Says he got a good deal on bulk ammo and he likes to go to the range.
Alright Judge, what you gonna do? This is a simplistic scenario but I think we all know what the Judge is gonna do: err on the side of caution. The side of caution is confiscation. Always will be... Wham, you just got elected judge. You live in a jurisdiction where fifty percent of the males have an AR, seventy five percent of households have some kind of firearm and 2,000 rounds is just enough for a couple afternoons at the river. Deer season is coming soon and you know that the state rifle association will want the stats of all the red flags you’ve granted. There are no social media posts backing her assertions. No evidence of drug use. And a clean criminal record and no mental health issues. You don’t want an opponent in the next election who says that you aren’t concerned enough with second amendment rights. Now what do you do? It's an interesting speculation, but Red Flag Laws don't get passed in jurisdictions like that. At least not yet. They get passed as the state level. But they are implemented at the local/county level. I see your point. Even in California, there are probably some counties in the State of Jefferson who would have a real issue.
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