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OP
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To kill grizzly and coastal brown bears reasonably quickly when shooting head-on into their thoracic cavities, what penetration in inches or a metric length is required to avoid running into serious "issues"? Does this depth of penetration remain constant for bow hunters' arrows? If firearms and arrows can do the job mentioned but require different penetration depths, which requires more depth? Why?
Last edited by Naphtali; 08/30/19.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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All the penetration one can get.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice. --ironbender
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Id' never shoot head on into a bears thoracic cavity unless it was a charge situation or wounded etc. Broadside makes way more sense.
That said, only enough penetration to get to the CNS in a charge or vitals, and each scenario can be different, hence the above answer all you can get.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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All the penetration one can get. ...several times.
Don't ask me about my military service or heroic acts...most of it is untrue.
Pronoun: Yes, SIR !
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Id' never shoot head on into a bears thoracic cavity unless it was a charge situation or wounded etc. Broadside makes way more sense.
That said, only enough penetration to get to the CNS in a charge or vitals, and each scenario can be different, hence the above answer all you can get. I would not hesitate on a front on shot... And aim for a rear wheel hip socket. I have put quite a few into big bears going in each direction and have never caught a 270gr Barnes from a .375 or .375AI. That includes full-length through several truly big bears. On the other hand I have never seen an Accubond exit a bear... And I have seen them used...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Campfire Tracker
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I can tell you what was adequate on a frontal shot for me... First one (26 4/16) at 16' with 400 grain .416 soft round nose Interbond. Knocked the sucker down, rolled over and died there. Into the chest on the right side facing and stopped against the rear, offside femur. Projectile weighted .357 grains after recovery.
Second one similar except the center of the chest and full body penetration. Bbl. was stuck in the chest of the bear and shot. It fell out of the tree and rolled over and died. Second shot at 5 yards was not needed though taken. Both were 275 grain Swift A Frame in .338 caliber. (25 13/16)
I have no problem shooting head on with these or any other critters. A diagonal shot is best if can be achieved but you do what you need do.
All others were taken in a "more civilized" manner😉
"You've been here longer than the State of Alaska is old!" *** my Grandaughters
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Front half (third?) holds alla the important stuff.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice. --ironbender
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Campfire Tracker
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I would not hesitate on a front on shot... And aim for a rear wheel hip socket...
Yep
"You've been here longer than the State of Alaska is old!" *** my Grandaughters
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Id' never shoot head on into a bears thoracic cavity unless it was a charge situation or wounded etc. Broadside makes way more sense.
That said, only enough penetration to get to the CNS in a charge or vitals, and each scenario can be different, hence the above answer all you can get. I would not hesitate on a front on shot... And aim for a rear wheel hip socket. I have put quite a few into big bears going in each direction and have never caught a 270gr Barnes from a .375 or .375AI. That includes full-length through several truly big bears. On the other hand I have never seen an Accubond exit a bear... And I have seen them used... Of course, I'm never right... LMAO. Whatever. BUT you don't easily get both lungs on a frontal shot. Taking both lungs is important to me. If its a wounded/charge thats another story totally, but any animal with only one lung out of commission can go a LONG way. Deer certainly can I can only imagine a big bear. But yes, one could take out CNS or the heart and it be all over, I know I certainly could but I simply won't. Low percentage shots just don't do it for me and not on larger more dangerous game. Of course I'm probably overly picky on my shot choices, yet I rarely have problems once I pull the trigger, and rarely rarely ever shoot twice. Again if wounded all bets are off and I"ll run every bullet through and through as often as I can from whatever angle. Arrows CERTAINLY do not need to be put frontal in an attempt at thoracic cavity if one knows much about arrows. YMMV.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Don, you should not otta tempt bears like that.... IIRC, and I have the right incident/person, that tree bear was about 14 feet up. Brown/griz. Everyone knows they can't climb trees. Good jumpers tho.
Last edited by las; 08/30/19.
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I would not hesitate on a front on shot... And aim for a rear wheel hip socket...
Yep A friend took (DLOP) what he could get - a front wheel socket for his first shot with a .30-06 at @30 yards. .No question of the bear's intent. Next 3 went in sideways, two of them lung hits, one gut. At the time, and maybe still, the second oldest brown bear on record - 31 years. 9'2". Mouth full of rotten/broken teeth, Memorial day weekend - 4 inches of fat on the sucker. Just a sore toothed old curmudgeon. The bear. I helped skin and pack it out 8 miles.
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
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Campfire Tracker
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Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master Guide, Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor FAA Master pilot www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.comAnyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Phil, you've been a Campfire member for over 14 years now. Haven't you realized that you're not supposed to actually answer questions?
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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There is a concise answer at least
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Careful gentlemen, the adults have entered the room🙂
"You've been here longer than the State of Alaska is old!" *** my Grandaughters
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OP
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Thank goodness several of you have hunted big bears and have taken frontal shots with bear on four feet/paws. What is that amount of penetration necessary - not ideal, not optimum - what gets the job done without "muss and fuss." One assumption is you have shot with revolver or rifle or shotgun or arrow and the shot was your idea. The bear did not charge or magically appear at poker table range. Since you are shooting at the chest by way of, perhaps, the neck, how deeply is the penetration
I'm a penetration shooter. When I bow hunted, before my MCTD got serious about destroying my body, I was a disciple of Dr. Ed Ashby*, an optometrist who retired to Australia - whose work shows heavy correctly-made two-edged broadheads are effective on large game - Asiatic buffalo - hugely beyond expectation and ballistics. Since then, I have emphasized penetration, nearly to the exclusion of expansion for my larger game hunting in extreme west central Montana - that is, hunting bullets are extremely short, light arrows that have exceptional speed. Oversimplification or not, it works. Hence my query.
*Archives of the well detailed testing by Dr. Ashby of his theories concerning can be found here Ashby on arrow performance with traditional bows
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Phil, you've been a Campfire member for over 14 years now. Haven't you realized that you're not supposed to actually answer questions? Another thing is, having actually shot bears, his information would be suspect....
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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As to the title: "Now, where's this Eskimo woman I'm supposed to wrestle?"
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
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Campfire Outfitter
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As to the title: "Now, where's this Eskimo woman I'm supposed to wrestle?" That made me laugh.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I've done head-on and broadside. Head-on was a 180gr Partition through the pocket of the front shoulder/brisket to opposite hip. Another was when he dropped his head and I drove one through the top of the spine at the base of the skull and through the chest. Most of the others have been broadside.
Z
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