Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Lee 230TC in a 45 acp

I've been shooting a Sig Stainless Target 5" 1911 off and on for a couple years. It's been throated for cast bullets. Using mostly Lee #68 and 200RF molds. I just picked up a 230 Truncated Cone mold to try. Cast a pile of them today with a soft 0.7% tin, 1.7% antimony alloy, 6 cavity mold rains bullets. Ran a few through the lube/sizer and made up a dummy round to check length. Set it at 1.25 to start, pulled the barrel and dropped it in to test. Plunks fine, actually .005 below flush. Round fits the magazine as well.
Question is, should I drop it back to 1.20 or so since the only data I've found for this bullet (Lyman #4) is for 1.17"? I've got it in my head to run this bullet for full power loads, and the 200 gr #68 for lighter paper loads. I've got HP-38, Universal, 800X, and Longshot on hand. I keep more of the Universal on hand since I load for 3 different 16 gauges. Any ideas as to length and load with this bullet?

I've been using that same basic bullet by Missouri Bullet and more recently, Bear Creek, for 8 years. I like it for full power loads and have found it as accurate as 200 grain H&G 68 copies I loaded previously.

More here: http://www.thesixgunjournal.net/missouri-bullets-225-grain-flathead-for-the-45-auto/

Thanks Sarge, guess there's no real advantage to seating out further just since I can in this chamber.
Going to cast a few more tomorrow, but water drop them to see if it makes much difference using the softer alloy. They tested a little over 9 Bhn a couple hours after casting, should end up around 10.5 in a few days according to a spreadsheet I use.

I like that bullet in my 45 & it hit's like a hammer!

Dick

So far I've just used it on marauding coons, possums and a couple of groundhogs. All of them were shot longways, coming or going and not one of them traveled two more feet. That's as good as I've seen from anything including supposedly superior 40-45 defense loads. I am comfortable using it for anything in this area.

Sarge and Dick, thanks for the reminder. Just ordered 1k of those using Long Island Firearms code liff-gc for 5% discount. The High Road has a discount code, too.

I've got a 230TC and aside from that damned Lee bevel base, I really like that bullet and haven't played with it in a while, as I've been running my H&G68 clone (MiHec).

A couple things, first I've got a Kimber Eclipse Target II and I cast all of mine out of wheelweight metal with a little tin added (about 2%). Then I size to .452, then I heat them up to 400deg. in a toaster oven and quench them. Then back through the sizer for lube. My Kimber shoots a bit better with the bullets a bit harder.

Second, I've shot H-Universal with both for quite some time. 5.5 grains with the 230's, 6.3 with the 200's. The 230's run right on 900fps., the 200's are at 960 (not really a "plinker", but more on that in a minute). Both shoot very well. I did replace the recoil and mainspring a while back. Along with a small radius firing pin stop. I did all this to play with some Ramshot Silhouette, H-Longshot and CFE Pistol. All are supposed to give a bit of ramped up performance at standard or plus p levels.

Lastly, that H&G 68 is a killer up close. Don't let that little metplat fool you. All I've shot with it are a couple trapped pigs, but it will knock a half inch hole through a lot of pork and bone (granted, at about 12 feet). One went about 250lbs. I shot him in the forehead and it came out his adams apple. The other weighed about 150, I aimed dead at his shoulder thinking both shoulders would stop the bullet and it wouldn't risk breaking the welds on the wires on the far side of the trap. It sailed right through both shoulders (missed the wires) and the pig hit the ground like something very big had just stomped on him. Graveyard dead.

If it'll do that, there's not much in TN I'd fear carrying it.

I'm not getting near the fps you are with Universal. I chronographed some loads today to get a feel for the bullet and Universal had me wondering about the pistol or the chronograph one. all loads were seated at 1.20" oal. At 5.3gr I'm getting only 744fps, 5.6 it's 782.
I dug out some Winchester White box 230 Hardball to double check the Chronograph and it hit 823fps, 5.4 gr HP-38 hit 825. Both close to what was expected considering the deep throat on the pistol. I went ahead and stepped up the Universal till I hit 830-850 fps. I won't post how much that charge was.
I would really like to use the Universal because I use it in the 16 ga shotguns and keep quite a bit of it around. It's starting to look like the HP-38/231 will be the more reliable powder in this setup.

Universal is my go-to powder for 255 grain bulk loads in 45 Colt, but I have never got it to work as well as W231/HP38 with 200-230 grain bullets in the 45 ACP cartridge.



I can't tell you how many times I've done just that when going from lead to coated bullets. That Bear Creek 230 FP is an good example, but it was sure worth the effort in that case. They use a proprietary moly-mix coating that cuts down on friction and probably 'bullet pull pressure' as well, so it takes a little more gas pedal to get to the same speed. But it shoots as well as any 45 bullet I've ever loaded and I am sold on them.

Problem was these were all lead non-PC bullets. I guess I'm wondering why published data on HP-38 was close and Universal was over 100 fps slower.

I've used the 225-230TC from Meister, Missouri and Bear Creek and have had good results with all of them. I set OAL length at 1.210" + .005 and that's run fine in everything so far. I've been meaning to try Universal, have only ever loaded them with Unique to this point. Current charge is 5.8 grains, which I believe is somewhere in the neighborhood of standard pressure, maybe nudging +P a bit...

I loaded up a batch recently with half Missouri Bullets and half Bear Creek (all in S&B brass), and Sarge is right about the moly'd ones needing a little more push due to less resistance. The Bear Creek were a bit slower across the board, and the speed difference increased with barrel length:

Averages Moly/Lubed

5.5" BH - 868/892
5" 1911 - 851/870
4" 1911 - 814/815
3" M25 - 747/755

FWIW, I think Universal tends to put it's best foot forward as it approaches top end for that cartridge. I experimented very briefly with it in a .38 Special and Hogdon's top load (175 358429's with 4.3grn Universal). They were only running around 500-550 out of my Det. Special, 4.5grn of Unique was 100fps faster with a much better extreme spread for 6 rounds. None of them shot great as that mold (like all of my Lymans) is undersized.

I also bought a MiHec clone of a RBCS 230CM. This bullet left most of it's 225 grains outside of the case with very little bearing surface. 5.5 grains of Universal barely made 800fps on average and the velocity spread was terrible.

I've also read where folks who've chronied a lot more rounds than I have indicate it's more position sensitive than Unique. That would sorta go along with what I've found in my limited experience.

At the other end of the spectrum, I've run 9.0 grains of Universal in my .45 Colt for years under a 454424 then a MiHec 270SAA (286 grains). Both bullets run right on 1000fps and my Bisley is more accurate than I am especially with the 270SAA.

I think Unique does a bit better at regular .45 Colt and .38 Special pressures (15KPSI or so). My biggest problem with Unique is that my old Uni Flow HATES it. Like, if you're running 4.7grains in a .38, the charges will measure 4.5-4.9. Some folks say it doesn't matter in a .38, I ask them if their willing to randomly vary their pet .30-06 load by 5 grains (around 10%). Same difference. Universal weighs MUCH more consistently (.45 Colt loads don't vary much at all, according to my old RCBS scale).

I did, btw, load a couple hundred .38's with Lee 158RNFP's with 4.7grn Unique and trickled the charge up. Awesome load. I'll never do it again though as it took half a day.