Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Blackhawk spring kit

So you are saying all Ruger and SW short barrel handguns do not stabilize bullets because the bullet is going 100FPS slower? Say 1250 FPS with a 240 grain bullet. At what barrel length are SW model 29 useless?

For example I buy a box of factory 44 magnum 240 grain loads from Remington. These will not be stabilized because they are 100 FPS slower out of a 3 3/4 inch barrel compared to a 6 inch barrel? What about a 44 special in the same twist with much less velocity? Is the 44 special stabilized going 800 FPS with a 240 grain bullet since the twist rate is the same.?

I put the Wolf 40 ounce spring in the 44 Bisley today. I measured pull weight with a digital Lyman gauge, and the original spring was 3 3/4 pounds. The Wolf spring brought it down to 2 pounds 7 ounces. It had a small amount of creep with both springs. I then did the Z bend on the trigger side of the Wolf spring and remeasured. The weight was the same, and maybe the creep was a smidge less? It was hard to tell, but I think so.

I only did 3 blackhawks, so my sample size is pretty small to draw conclusions.
So with reserve, here is my limited summary.

Bending the factory spring is a huge improvement. The procedure only takes ten minutes, and the trigger pull have easily be reduced by a a pound or more by bending the frame side of the spring according to the cylindersmith link.
Really for most shooters this would be a great improvement and really worth the effort.

Bending a Z in the trigger side of the factory spring seems to reduce creep somewhat. This creep is also reduced slightly with the Wolf spring with or without the Z bend. So again I believe the cylindarsmith instructions in my guns.

I bought a 3 pack of the 40 ounce springs. Cost was a little under 30 bucks because they charge me tax/shipping. So each spring was 10 bucks or so, and the question is that worth the cost/effort? I think yes.
The pull weight seemed more consistent with the 40 ounce wolf, and the creep was slightly reduced. All 3 of my revolvers benefited, and only the 44 special needs some polishing to be excellent.
Wolf also sells a 30 ounce spring, and it may have advantages, but the 40 ounce springs I bought were pretty optimal for my taste.

By the way, Ruger did a pretty good job fixing up my new Bisley. The sight is straight now, and they fitted a new grip frame. The fit is excellent, but the stocks were not exact like most Rugers. Cylinder to barrel gap is super small. They did leave some polish/grit in the action, because cocking the revolver sound like they is a cup of sand in the action. That is pretty silly. Anyway when I get a chance I'll strip it down and clean and lube.
I also just bought a 44 special in a Bisley, and the fit and finish on it is excellent. Naturally it is a smaller frame, but it seems more refined. I think both exceed build quality from the late 80s 41 magnum Bisley in 41 magnum.

It is true so a special is better served with a lighter bullet. 800 FPS reduces you to 25 yards or less. A 1 in 20 can stabilize a 240 but in the mag it will be with 23.5 of 296 for certain bullets and 24 gr of 296 for the XTP. 1413 to 1522 FPS from 23 to 24 gr.
Now the truth about a S&W 29, rate is 1 in 18-3/4" and they shoot a 240 great but really wants a heavier bullet. But max weight will be around 265 gr as the parts break down with inertia from too much recoil.
I have worked with the .44 mag since 1956, That is 63 years and 98,000 rounds just from one revolver. 8 others have gone down the road.
If you can shoot 3/4" groups at 100 yards with a short special at 800 FPS you fell out of YouTube into cow dung.

Thanks for sharing all your experiences Great Grampaw, especially the ones you don't remember and the ones that never happened.

Funny how Remington's target load is 755FPS with a 246 grain bullet, similar to other manufactures.
So the answer is that as velocity decreases, the need for bullet spin goes down. So even in blackpowder days the revolver like the 45 LC or 44/40 could shoot past 25 yards.

Tag

I have had an open ended offer forever. Bring your guns here and shoot. Then choose any or all from my safe and YOU shoot them, not me. You will leave with a different opinion. My ammo boxes are there for you and you can shoot all you want since a dime a shot or a tad more for larger will not deplete my SS.
Some from other sites live close and came to shoot. I will teach every step and work on your Ruger free and make your S&W stop unlocking the cylinder. You will not see this again.

Just how do you figure you need less spin? Look down the short barrel and you see almost a straight land. It will take 20" for a full turn so the bullet must gain spin outside your barrel.
If you want to have fun, buy a Marlin .44 with a 1 in 38" twist. You have 2 or 3 years to get 100 yard groups.

It is called gyroscopic stability. You can do a google search and look at the formulas if you have the ability to cuff the math. Sorry to be rude, either you just don't understand, or tragically you probably know you are wrong but want to argue. I just did a quick search and this link looks pretty good because it breaks down stability factors, and the math is pretty simple. Basically less velocity needs less spin given other factors remain constant like air density and shape. https://bisonballistics.com/articles/bullet-stability
Sorry you don't gain spin outside the rifling, you don't need a full twist in a barrel length, I have no idea why you are stuck on that idea.
Saying things like a 44 special is not stable beyond 25 yards is really troubling. To say a 1250 FPS 240 grain bullet is not stabilized because it is too slow in a 44 magnum is troubling. To say Smith and Wesson, Colt, Ruger, and Freedom Arms don't know appropriate rifling rates is troubling.

Maybe you should actually read the article you posted.
It really is good and the point of poor accuracy is correct with over spin but only until the bullets settles to stability. Over spin can ruin close range groups but will shoot at ranges you can't see. I see you do not understand what you posted at all.
Now back up a little with twist. Freedom makes the .45 Colt and the .454 with a 1 in 24" twist. Ruger's .454 made the same mistake when the .45 Colt is 1 in 16" as is the BFR .454.
Marlin sent me the Greenhill formula to explain the 1 in 38" rate of the lever gun. A formula made for cannon balls. IT DOES NOT WORK!
No, you do not need a full turn as with a 20" barrel for a 1 in 20. But an almost straight land in short will not bring a 1 in 20 to full spin. I don't care if you push to extreme velocities it can't apply enough spin.

So a 44 special is still only good to 25 yards?
So a 3 3/4 barrel in 44 mag only had 44 special velocities?
A 3 3/4 barrel in 44 mag will not stabilize bullets?

I've owned a few 6" DA and 5 1/2" SA revolvers. None stayed long. I settled on 4" DA revolvers and single action with their barrels about even with the ejector rod housing. I have killed enough game with the shorter guns to convince me they work just fine.

I also lived several years next to a 240 acre field we could shoot over when the crops were out; so we stapled cardboard to an old pallet and set it upright on t-posts against a terrace at a known 550 yards. We then proceeded to walk shots onto it with the 4" Model 29, ala Elmer Keith. We used a 240 grain Sierra HP over whatever was 'book max' of H110, along with a lighter load using 9 grains of Universal under a cast 240 grain SWC. I didn't own a chronograph in those days but believe the Universal was doing about 950 fps.

We got on the pallet within a couple of cylinders of each load. Bullets from both loads were hitting the pallet straight on, of course in a downward path and punching through the first board with no problem. I reckon if they were stable at five football fields, they were stable for the whole trip.