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Winchester 1886 45-90 #13891723 06/11/19
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Fotis Offline OP
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Hey guys I just picked up my Winchester 1886 limited edition takedown model. It is chambered and 45-90 Winchester Centerfire. It is a deluxe model and it's half at agonal half round Barrel l. My question is upon inspecting the barrel I noticed that it says 45-90 black powder only. I have noticed that a lot of people on YouTube and cast bullet Forum etc etc are getting 400 grain Speers out a 2200 feet second + safely out of this rifle. My question is an academic one if the 1886 is strong and stronger than the Marlin 1895 and use strong Starline brass why am I limited to Black Powder only which does not interest me in the least bit? I did call Winchester customer service and they gave me the legal safe answer we recommend only what stamped on the barrel however the guy did go further to say that it is a very strong action and so is the Starline brass without letting the cat out of the bag that it is safe to do so even though he never actually stated it. Any opinions on this matter at all thank you


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300 BP

Re: Winchester 1886 45-90 [Re: Fotis] #13891726 06/11/19
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Fotis Offline OP
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Additionally I have read many many places that you can actually fire any 45-70 government Factory loads through a 45-90 example 350 to 500 grain Buffalo Bore which are loaded to the gills


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Re: Winchester 1886 45-90 [Re: Fotis] #13891754 06/11/19
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Fotis Offline OP
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okay I read and a few other forms that the reason they put that on there is to cover your ass type deal. It's because there is no Sammi specs for the 45-90


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Re: Winchester 1886 45-90 [Re: Fotis] #13893674 06/12/19
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crshelton Offline
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Congratulations on your new 1886 and welcome to the 1886 .45-90 cult!

Trade you a pic of my Miroku 1886 TD .45-90 for one of yours!

[Linked Image]


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Re: Winchester 1886 45-90 [Re: Fotis] #13896471 06/13/19
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Fotis Offline OP
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I couldn't resist!

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


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Re: Winchester 1886 45-90 [Re: Fotis] #13896473 06/13/19
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Fotis Offline OP
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Here are some more pictures. It now wears a Williams FP peep sight. I did not have to remove the rear sight because the peep "prints" right on top of the buckhorn sight and is covered completely! :

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


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Re: Winchester 1886 45-90 [Re: Fotis] #13899243 06/14/19
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Snowwolfe Offline
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Beautiful rifle. I am such a sucker for take downs.


My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost.
Re: Winchester 1886 45-90 [Re: Fotis] #13900245 06/14/19
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Fotis Offline OP
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Thanks


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Re: Winchester 1886 45-90 [Re: Fotis] #13910307 06/19/19
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Dang Fotis, that is a great looking rifle!

Looking forward to your range report.

Guy

Re: Winchester 1886 45-90 [Re: Fotis] #14133725 09/17/19
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crshelton Offline
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Fotis - a beautiful rifle.

Fotis said "I read and a few other forms that the reason they put that on there is to cover your ass type deal. It's because there is no Sammi specs for the 45-90"
That is true and I have seen it reported in more than one gun publication.

Go ahead and load 'er up if you like. The hottest loads so far in my "elephant rifle" are 450 grain Kodiak FMJ at 2150 fps MV. Those bullets shoot through bison and cape buffalo sideways; end to end, they give the buff a bad tummy ache. A friend took my 1886 45-90 to Africa and killed an ele, multiple Cape buff, a leopard and some plains game.
I have taken game from blackbuck to bison(with the DG loads) with it. A very accurate, fun gun.


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Bravo

Re: Winchester 1886 45-90 [Re: Fotis] #14135755 09/18/19
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JFE Offline
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Fotis - that’s a nice rifle. I think the buttplate design will temper your interest in heavy loads! I changed the buttstock out on my Browning 1886 to a shotgun butt style and that made quite a difference to comfort and handling.

The problem with the 45/90 is the lack of published pressure tested loading data. There is plenty around for the 45/70 but high pressure data for the 45/90 is hard to find.

CRS - did you ever have those loads you refer to pressure tested ?

Re: Winchester 1886 45-90 [Re: JFE] #14136560 09/18/19
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crshelton Offline
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JFE,
Grizzly Cartridge loaded that specific load for our bullet testing Safari and the reported peak pressure was under 40,000 PSI. As you surely know, the modern 1886 is safe above 50,000 psi. I do have and use the Pressure Trace II system for my own hot loads such as my Winchester 1895 .405 WCF 400 grain loads at 2076 fps and 48,000 psi. Those kill Cape Buffalo also; shoot- through from rear rib and out between front legs, leaving big hole in heart.

I can approach or even equal that .458 2.4 performance with VV N133, bu I have plenty of loaded rounds left and so no motivation to load more. The bison I shot with that load went down like a metal target- the bullet went through both shoulders and exited on the off side. Similar performance was reported on Cape buff - shoot- throughs on broadside shots and deep penetration on front or rear end shots(the same as our experience with Texas exotics such as big bison, water buff, watusi, and elk before the safari.) In Africa, It actually knocked down an ele with a 20 yard frontal brain shot, but the FMJ expanded and did not enter the brain. The following shots with NF and Punch bullets did though.

As you may know, I call BS on fear of crescent metal butt plates hurting the shooter when used correctly. This rifle weighs 9.5 pounds empty and does not even cut or hurt from the bench - IF you tuck the metal butt plate into the armpit so the rifle can rise rather than push back. In the field, the barrel comes back down on target with a fresh round in the chamber. Serendipity!

Fotis, please do not touch that beautiful stock with any tool. Just shoot it and enjoy the shooting and the making of other levergunners jealous!


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Re: Winchester 1886 45-90 [Re: Fotis] #14136935 09/19/19
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JFE Offline
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CRS - that’s interesting info on the Pressure Trace system. I wasn’t aware of this system and will look further into it.

On the subject of crescent buttplates I have used a few rifles with crescent buttplates and even have a couple myself. They look traditional and all that, but IMO are totally impractical on a hunting rifle, particularly one that boots. We’ll just have to agree to disagree on the use of crescent buttplates.

Re: Winchester 1886 45-90 [Re: Fotis] #14137596 09/19/19
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crshelton Offline
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JFE
"We’ll just have to agree to disagree on the use of crescent buttplates." Fair enough!
I have no axe to grind on butt plates and I care little how shooters use their rifles. It does pain me though, to see a pretty and useful stock butchered because of recoil fear BEFORE giving it a try with a proper mount.
=======================================================================================
"The problem with the 45/90 is the lack of published pressure tested loading data. There is plenty around for the 45/70 but high pressure data for the 45/90 is hard to find. " All true - not easy, but since when are easy tasks very rewarding?

However, given the same bullet and load, the longer case of the 45-90 should generate lower pressure than the same load in a 45-70.
This load/pressure can be a safe starting place for .45-90 loads.
The Winchester .458 magnum case is 1/10 inch longer than the 45-90 and holds 8-10 percent more volume, establishing an upper limit for .45-90 loads.
Given these two points , even I was able to "guesstimate" where to begin and end.
There are also some good printed ( Authors like Sharpe and like Ken Waters + the Lyman Manual ) sources and online sources of 45-90 load data. The research is part of the fun.

With this amount of reference data on 45-90 loads, any experienced hand loader should be off to a running start loading for the 45-90. Naturally, if said hand loader is unable to read or use a search engine, he may use a custom load service of which there several in the USA.

PS, I also like the 45-70 and have a Beretta .45-70 double rifle and am helping my son pick his first 45-70 lever action. My help is him shooting some light loads in my DR and an 1886 45-70 - he did well and liked making big holes in the targets. smile


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Android Reloading Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/
Re: Winchester 1886 45-90 [Re: Fotis] #14138324 09/19/19
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JFE Offline
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CRS - I agree that a competent reloader could derive loads but I would be cautious of using a 458 Win Mag in any comparison. Apart from the greater capacity, the 458 has an enormous, funnel shaped throat, much greater COL and is loaded to much higher pressures, all of which greatly exceed the simple case capacity difference.

The available published 45/90 data that I have seen is well short of the performance of lever gun loads for the 45/70. It’s like the early days when the 45/70 was reintroduced in stronger rifles back in the 70’s. I recall well Ken Waters’ Handloader article of 1974 on the 45/70. However Ken’s loads then fell short of the pressure tested data that were released years later. Sooner or later a gun scribe will take up the challenge I expect.


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