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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,578 Likes: 26
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,578 Likes: 26 |
I am MAGA.
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 109
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 109 |
For my full power loads, I use 240 XTP and 24.0 H110. This is a very popular load combo. I shoot this through a Super Blackhawk, Super Redhawk and T/C Contender.
My plinking loads for the SBH is a Rainer (now out of business) 240 bullet with 10.0 Unique. Nice load to shoot.
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000 |
8 grains of Unique was Elmer Keith’s go to load in 44 special with the old Keith 245 gr .44 SWC cast bullet. Does it mater that my 240 gr. LSWC Keith style is coated? The coated aspect is what I'm kinda hung up on. It would be great if I could use 8 grains for Specials and 10 for Magnums. Frankly, I don't quite understand why it makes any difference between lead and jacketed bullets if the weights are the same, but according to manuals that I've seen, apparently it does. I contacted Missouri Bullet Company for loading information and they flatly refused to answer anything other than to say they made good bullets. They seemed scarred to death of a lawsuit. I guess these days, I should not blame them, but it is very frustrating. They did refer me to a load data website, but I found that you have to pay to see what they have and there is no guarantee that they even have a listing for the particular bullet in question. I want good performance, but I don't want to screw anything up. Mistakes can be embarrassing as well as expensive. henry there is a difference between jacketed and lead bullets based upon the increased resistence of jacketed bullets going through the barrel. i have and do powder coat these days, and basically use the load data for cast bullets.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,308 Likes: 16
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,308 Likes: 16 |
Copper jacket bullets create more friction than lead bullets as they go though the barrel therefore creating more pressure.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,925
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,925 |
I've had good luck with 10 grains of Unique under a 240-grain SWC. Accurate enough for rabbits, powerful enough for deer. 7 grains of 231 is also a good bet.
Okie John
If Montana had a standing army, a 270 Win with Federal Blue Box 130's would be the standard issue.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,959
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,959 |
8.5 gr CFE Pistol, 250-265 Keith SWC.
20.5 gr. 2400 for a bit more oomph.
Last edited by HawkI; 09/29/19.
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,460 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,460 Likes: 2 |
OK, I ordered myself a S&W M-69 4.25 in. barrel .44 Mag/Spl yesterday. Also ordered a set of dies, brass, and bullets. I would like some suggested loads for it. I will have both 240 gr. coated lead SWC bullets (Missouri Bullet Company) and Hornady 240 gr. XTP JHP bullets. I have on hand both Remington and Federal large pistol primers, Unique, 2400, and Titegroup powders, both .44 Magnum and .44 Special Starline brass. Any proven or published load data would be appreciated. Thanks! Years ago I used a 4" 629 when shooting a combat training course. All I needed was "bang" and some holes close to where the gun pointed ... beyond that, the less recoil the better. 5.0 grains of Green Dot under a 250 grain cast bullet worked well. Came out the end of the barrel, made holes in paper, didn't beat me up. Lot of people like somewhere around 8-9 grains of Unique .. a little warmer but pretty pleasant. For a while I shot 17.0 to 18.0 grains of 2400 under my 240-ish grain cast bullets ... std primers, magnum cases. This more or less matched Elmer Keith's heavy .44 special load. That heavy special / light magnum "load zone" is pretty useful. Today I have other guns, I don't have much need for light loads in my .44 magnum. The only thing I've shot in them in the past 3-5 years has been 24 grains of Win 296 under 250 grain SWC. I use Winchester Large Pistol primers in this load. It is a little peppy in my short Ruger, a lot peppy in my S&W 329PD. With jacketed bullets, I've never really worked with lighter loads, need velocity for expansion. I've looked for accuracy with max or very near max loads. The best load, across many guns, I've ever come up with, is 240 grain Sierra JHC, WW brass, Fed 155 primer, and 24.7 grains of Win 296. I don't shoot jacketed bullets much now but if I did, I'd start out about 23.5 and work up. I have gone as high as 25 with the Hornady 240 in a Redhawk, but I wouldn't enjoy shooting them in the S&W and I don't think I'd want to subject my gun to the abuse. I do not like max loads of 2400. It can be a little spooky with some load data.
Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a M�bius strip.
Here be dragons ...
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,812
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,812 |
My experience too, with modern Unique. Some old truisms die a slow death.
Mathew 22: 37-39
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,899 Likes: 2
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,899 Likes: 2 |
Thanks to all for the replies.
"...why, land is the only thing in the world worth working for, worth fighting for, worth dying for,... because it is the only thing that lasts."
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,189
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,189 |
Seems like everything was covered in past replies. I would also recommend Unique 8-10 grains under the coated bullets. You won't find data for coated bullets, but they behave much like uncoated cast bullets. Just a bit less friction in my experience, so equivalent loads will give you a hair less pressure and a hair more velocity than regular lubed cast bullets, and a LOT more velocity than jacketed bullets. I use cast data, and adjust accordingly. Fairly hard, flat-nosed, coated cast bullets will do an immense amount of work even at moderate speed. You'll find a load between 8 and 10 grains of Unique that shoots well, if the bullets match your cylinder throats fairly closely.
As far as the Hornady 240 XTP, they don't need speed, but do a fine job at twice what you can get out of that 4" revolver. IF you are a glutton for recoil and muzzle blast (and most of us are, at times), the 23-24gr of H110/296 is a great load. It has been accurate for me in several guns and platforms with the Hornady and other 240 gr jacketed bullets. IF you aren't looking for that sort of thing, but want a good working load, look toward powders like Blue Dot or Long Shot or Power Pistol. Data can be found online. I have used all of these to excellent effect out of various 44's, both short and long.
The best jacketed bullet in 240gr weight I've used for killing stuff is the Nosler 240 JHP. I've only ever recovered them in the ground beyond what was shot, and they always end up gloriously expanded, doing remarkable damage, even with no bone hit.
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,228
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,228 |
If you shoot a lot of ammo loaded in .44 Special brass in your S&W 69, you're likely to get some carbon buildup ahead of the case and it could be harder to load full length .44 Magnum rounds into the cylinder. That happened to me when I was shooting ammo loaded in .44 Special brass in my S&W 329PD, so now I only use .44 Magnum brass for all of the ammo that I load for that revolver and the carbon build up is no longer an issue. I'd also recommend that you consider sending your S&W 69 to Ahlman's in Morristown, MN, to be turned and to have the forcing cone reamed. The $70 that they charge for an "action job" tune up is one of the best values anywhere and the $15 that they charge to ream the forcing cone eliminates the possibility of lead shaving. I send all of my "shooter" revolvers to Ahlman's for those 2 jobs and haven't met anyone yet who had that work done and didn't think that it was money well spent. www.ahlmans.com
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 3,445
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 3,445 |
$35 for reaming of forcing cone...(?).
Don't ask me about my military service or heroic acts...most of it is untrue.
Pronoun: Yes, SIR !
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,228
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,228 |
$35 for reaming of forcing cone...(?).
You're right, $35, not $15, but still a great value.
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 89
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 89 |
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 89
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 89 |
As for the Smith 69, shooting 44 special rounds in to are problematic. Accuracy is fine, hardly any recoil, but them the cases stick and don't eject easily. I believe that some of the powder gets between the case and cylinder gumming things up. I can shoot 5 rounds of special, and have to hit the rod several times up get the cases out, then reload with magnum and it runs slick as a whistle. 50 rounds of magnum are ok at the range, but I get something like mild tennis elbow later on. The answer is some kind of low power loads in a magnum case, of course.
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,312 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,312 Likes: 1 |
Well covered but I will add if you want to run bullets over 1100fps shoot jacketed not lead/coated.
NRA Life Member
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,460 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,460 Likes: 2 |
Well covered but I will add if you want to run bullets over 1100fps shoot jacketed not lead/coated. Why? I've been shooting them in the 1300-1400 fps range, some up around 1700 fps, 50K to 75K of them, over the past 3+ decades. Please enlighten me! I would sure hate to have a problem for 35 years and not notice it. Tom
Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a M�bius strip.
Here be dragons ...
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,676
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,676 |
I have to back up a little on short guns. 4-1/2 to 5" will be fine. I am only concerned with shorter. Hard lead will be shot at full velocity so there is no limit.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,342
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,342 |
After decades of abusing myself and my revolvers with max loads of 296 and jacketed bullets, I have relearned, yet again, that a decent hard cast bullet at 800-900 fps tends to be accurate, punches all the way through deer, and is a heck of a lot easier on both me and the hardware. However, the accuracy I got with a max load of 296 and 180 gr Sierras used to permit me to place a group in the top, or bottom, half of a sheet of notebook paper at a hundred yards out of -2 Model 29's with 6" barrels. My eyes (and probably other body parts) are no longer up to this task.
Imagine your grave on a windy winter night. You've been dead for 70 years. It's been 50 since a visitor last paused at your tombstone..... Now explain why you're in a pissy mood today.
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,312 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,312 Likes: 1 |
Well covered but I will add if you want to run bullets over 1100fps shoot jacketed not lead/coated. Why? I've been shooting them in the 1300-1400 fps range, some up around 1700 fps, 50K to 75K of them, over the past 3+ decades. Please enlighten me! I would sure hate to have a problem for 35 years and not notice it. Tom Your mileage may vary.
NRA Life Member
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