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Sure. Truth, love and justice.

Is HE bound by HIS word???

Let me give a couple thoughts, not arguments.


So Jesus seems confused, Peter is good or Peter is bad. A principle of interpretation is that scripture must be internally consistent. Perhaps it's a rebuke, as in you're so wrong that's what satan would have you believe.


The Church, run on Earth by people, has always had corrupt elements and always will, but the gates of hell will not prevail against it. This guy Francis is not articulate. I think he meant to say there are corrupt elements in the Church and he accepts that there are. NOT that he approves of it. You have to accept that corruption exists before you can remedy it.


Well he did have a hierarchy of 12, one above the other 11. And those 11 had people in charge of distant communities. So what were those epistles about if not giving instruction to deacons? And the 12 were instructed to evangelize all which caused the Jews no end of consternation. They thought the Messiah was to establish an earthly kingdom and put the chosen people above all others. Jesus popped that pretty little bubble, salvation is for all of humanity. And obviously a big organization is needed to get the word out.

People out of avarice, as is the wont of humanity, bent the Church bureaucracy to corruption to some degree from time to time. we've had some rotten popes. But, as Jesus promised, it's still there and still doctrinally pure. All the power and wealth is in the bureaucracy so that's where corruption lies, not in doctrine. The gates of hell have not prevailed against it.

I'd state that a little differently. God cannot be bound by truth, love and justice. Or anything else. He IS truth, love and justice. (And infinite in mercy else we're all screwed.)

if it's happening, it's because of the hand of god.

of course it could be by evolution according to some.

if so, the games wild, the tables are open, and the game is on.

god either is sovereign and saves whomever he so chooses, or not.

the arguments get deep and run deeper very quickly. but god is god.

i would probably just hate to believe some folks could be lucky, or do things by default,

or say things (even believe things) that turned out to give them salvation by default.

to attempt to wrap strings, ropes, or doctrines around a sovereign god could be treacherous?

Yes He is. He started the ball rolling. And what will screw with your mind is wondering if he still takes a hand in the game. Something wonderful and highly unlikely happens (perhaps evolution). Divine intervention or statistically a lotto win? Does anybody really know? How could anybody tell?

There are confirmed miracles but the confirmation is a total lack of scientific explanation. That does not foreclose the condition that a scientific explanation will not be available in the future.

what a few think, (maybe more than a few?), is that god (creator) is slowly working with humans to turn the advancement of the human condition on urth over to the humans.

in the beginning god created, and started the biology/consciousness/machine into motion. add-on all kinds of speculations, and suppositions.

but over time, humans learned how to farm, treat disease, follow the astronomical processions, govern themselves (at least sort of), and develop technology.

it's a god-human cooperative venture.

over time the plan? if there is one, is to continue to turn the management of the Urth over more and more to the humans. (how are we doing so far?)

so, it's a co-creation process. one could rightfully assume that at some point (in the far, far future?), the Earthlings would become responsible for their own dominion?

they'd have to have and possess free will for that to occur, right. or not?

His Word is Truth.

so, the the People are in God's hands,

or

they're running on free will,

or

it's in the hands of a partnership between God & the People.

do we want to do things with God or make it on our own, without God.

since god is our creator, is it even possible to engage in things he hasn't ordained?

i would just hate if god put me here, and at the end of the day he told me i didn't do my job.

well, God, just what in the hell job would that have been, pray tell? i only have one vote, and i do vote.

Gus, gotta disagree with that, (your post before your last one)just a little. I see a division of labor, God handles the supernatural stuff and leaves the drudge work for us. (being a bit facetious, God has a sense of humor. Just Google Walmart People and look at all the funny looking people He made.) But yeah, it's a cooperative effort. If people would take the Gospel (Or any other moral guide) as an instruction book and actually follow it urth would be a much nicer place.

IF we could actually agree on WHICH moral code and WHAT it means. No luck with the bible, something like 36,000 different interpretations.

i don't have much of a problem with god handling the supernatural stuff, and the lowly biological humans with a consciousness handling the mundane.

humans on earth, what a concept.

so, why do i have to believe stuff that many others do, and many others don't?

this borderline between the natural & the supernatural? how fine is the dividing line?

ol shakespeare loved theatre & drama. reckon his manuscripts are buried in oak island?

if god finally did hand off responsibility of life on earth to humans, could we handle it, maybe?

Why not? saw that show a couple times and they seemed to think everything else was buried there, and at the end of each episode only inches away.


Are you kidding? Have you seen the news? There are estimates that more people are persecuted for their faith today than ever before, for example. And a report that more people are being trafficked for sex and employment today than ever before including African slave days.

How are we handling it now? The worlds on fire, lacks of food, water, jobs, medicine, peace and love. People being killed over nothing. Children without parents, or hope. Those are the human accomplishments.

well, there it is. it's the way it is, with god himself in control. with god out of control (not in control), no tellin' what might happen next.

btw, i think those folks on oak island have found a way to make a good living sellin' entertainment about the oak island hole, or whatever it is.

Now don't go blaming God for this mess, the stars are still in the sky and water still runs downhill. Supernatural stuff still works. He even gave us road maps like the ten commandments or which ever moral guide you choose. Every civilization has at least one. We dunderheads choose to ignore the good advice making a mess of things.

is that mostly due to an imperfect design, or more to an imperfect implementation of the design?

i don't know, that's why i'm going out on a limb and asking.

There's a long answer to that. Short answer is it's due to the terrible and wonderful gift of free will. We can turn to our transcendent nature, a reflection of God (made in His image and likeness) or we can turn the other way and wallow in carnal desires. Some of us are into that to the point of being international criminals.

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How are we handling it now? The worlds on fire, lacks of food, water, jobs, medicine, peace and love. People being killed over nothing. Children without parents, or hope. Those are the human accomplishments. [/quote]

Sure,there's plenty of negative if your want to look at it that way, but all in all things are pretty good for a whole lot of people. The world is not on fire, does not lack food, water isn't probably more available and better quality than at many times in the past, medicine had improved almost unbelievably, and there is plenty of peace and love out there if you are willing to acknowledge it. Many of out not too distant ancestors would have thought they'd died and gone to heaven if they could live in the peace and prosperity we live in now.

Exactly, so are we going to believe when the Word says 'soon'............

If we can disregard HIS Words regarding time, then we can disregard others also.

You have a point. If I had been born 50 years before I was I probably wouldn't have lasted a week.