Home Forums Miscellaneous Topics Military Support

Barak,

You say, "If God gave me my rights, then only God can take them away. People can threaten me with harm if I exercise my rights, but they're mine nonetheless; I can't lose them to a person or a group of people."

Go ahead and walk into the Post Office/ Federal Building brandishing a loaded .45 1911 and You'll see how fast, your God given rights are removed, and for a perfectly good reason too.

Sigh.

Like RickBin, I'm not convinced of the utility of further correspondence.

I have no God-given right to threaten people; but if I do threaten someone, then he has a God-given right to self defense.

I did vote for candidates in state and local races, except in cases where I couldn't support any of the candidates. My candidates didn't win, is all.

And I'm afraid your scenario is very strained, especially if you're using it as a justification for infringing people's rights.

Barak,

Okay, I see you're getting tired, and I do believe we are beating a dead horse here, you are set in your ways and there is no convincing you different on this forum...... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
So now, when are you flying out so that I can teach you how to fish?

Flying out where?

KY

Possibly sometime this spring or summer, if you're serious. I'd be bringing my wife and at least one daughter (maybe both) along to share in the benefit of your wisdom. (Both daughters are college-age.)

Guys,

I think all that can be said has been said. We've just been rehashing what was alrready stated. To that end I am bugging out of this thread.

Blaine

You may disagree with his policies and that is OK. You undermine your arguments by resorting to name calling. Our President deserves respect. Don't call him names! George Bush has integrity, and honor.

There are a few simple reason why we need to defeat Iraq. The first and most important one is to show that rest of the world that then can't mess with us. We have had eight years of a "President" who was more interested in his dick and image then in the country. Iraq, the terrorists and North Korea are problems created by Clinton.

We fought a war and our soldiers died to defeat Saddam. The war ended with an agreement that required Saddam to eliminate his weapons of mass distruction and he broke this agreement which is justification for the war to resume. In addition, his attempted assasination of former President Bush was an act of war which justifies attacking Iraq.

It is people like you that caused WWII. They were too afraid to stand up to evil and defeat the Nazis before they became strong. Saddam is weak now and now is the time to take him out.

Your charges that "he is imperialist" is completely bogus. We could have easily conquered Iraq in 1991 if we wanted to take it over. There was nothing stopping us. What you call imperialism is just the mechanism for sucessfully transitioning Iraq from an evil dictatorship to a better government. We have done it before with Japan, Germany and Italy. We defeated them and then rebuilt their countries and societies along demcratic lines and an honest person would have to admit that they are better off because we did.

Do you think that Saddam Hussein deserves to be in charge of Iraq ? I know he worked hard for the job. Murder and torture is hard work! Did you know that his role models are Hitler and Stalin ? Do you think that the Iraqi people will fight to the death for Saddam ? If you are honest you will admit that the Iraqi people will be better off if we are sucessfull.

Leaving logic and policies aside for a moment. I would like to know why you hate our President ? Are you a true blue Democrat and upset that Al Gore did not succeed in stealing the election ? Or do you hate rich people ? You do realize that hating people because they are republicans or because they have money in not to much different than hating people because they are black.

ConradCA,

Most of this stuff has already been hashed over in this thread and others. Bush has no honor or integrity or else he'd keep his oath of office; "teaching the world a lesson" is not a good reason to invade and colonize a sovereign country; Iraq's disarmament is a UN issue, not a US issue, and should be taken care of by the UN; and the question of whether Saddam "deserves" to be in charge of Iraq is one that the US has no business asking, much less answering: it's a question for the Iraqi people. New arguments on these issues are welcome, but bare assertions or repetitions of the standard screeds are a waste of time.

But there are some personal misapprehensions in your message that I've seen other places as well, and I figured I could take a stab at correcting those.


First, people like me are not pacifists. We are not the "War Is Never The Answer" folks you've seen on TV waving signs. Most of us, in fact, would have supported US entry into WWII if we had been of decision-making age at the time--probably even before Pearl Harbor.

Second, no matter how long we ignore Saddam, it is unlikely that he will ever become a threat to the national security of the US. He'd have to take over pretty much the entire Middle East before he could do that, and brutal dictators have never been able to successfully rule large regions without being overthrown. Saddam, especially, as a secular Arab, would never be able to handle the more religious Muslim states.

Third, killing weak people whom you think might eventually develop into a threat to you is not a moral stance that I care to be a part of. That sounds like Pharaoh, or King Herod, or the modern pro-abortion gang.


I do not hate Baby Bush. One does not hate politicians for being corrupt and dishonorable: it's a fruitless and unprofitable activity, much like hating fish for swimming. I am angry at him because he has stolen large helpings of my liberties and his administration has its eye on seconds and thirds.


No, I'm not a Democrat--true-blue or any other kind. I have never been a Democrat. (I have, on the other hand, been a Republican.) I have, on occasion, voted for Democrats, though.

I was fully expecting Gore to win the election--by a halfway decent margin--and was somewhat surprised when he didn't. I think he would have been a better President than Baby Bush, in the sense that he would have been able to get much less done, because he would have had to fight Congress and everybody would have been watching him through a microscope. My liberties probably would have been safer from him than they have been from Baby Bush--not because he would necessarily have had a smaller appetite for them (although I suspect he would have), but because he would never have been able to successfully commit atrocities like the USA PATRIOT Act or the Homeland Security Act. He would probably also have been less fiscally deceptive, raising taxes instead of running a huge deficit like Baby Bush is doing. (Bush is raising taxes too, except that his taxes come in the form of inflation.)


I used to hate rich people. Believe it or not, it was Rush Limbaugh who convinced me of the folly of that, back when he was still worth listening to and had not yet become such a brainless Republican shill.

RickBin, Trying to reason with Comrad Barak is like trying to reason with a Mega Liberal DemocRat.....




God Bless America!!!!!

It is not "comrad" Barak, this is free America and ALL are entitled to their opinions. Whether YOU like them or not.

Find fault and show it with his logic, don't try to assassinate his charactor, that's a demorats tactic! Show him where he is wrong if you can, with facts and logic. Don't be childish, sheesh, just like my dog Spot, can dish it out, but can't take it!

T LEE I call it like I see it, Comrad Barak is more than capable of taking up for himself.. You need to mind your own business...

Have A Nice Day

Barak is a friend and I'll mind any damn business I want as long as I don't step on anybody else's right to do the same, Thank you very much. Who died and left you in charge anyway?
Respond with something to refute what he says, you know, like a grown up.

T LEE, Who died and left you in charge should be the question?? Barak and I have had a few discussions before and he has been known to throw a sucker punch remark too... Barak seems like a very intelligent man who does not need you hovering over him like a mother hen....If you are his friend and share his unsavory Liberal point of view that is your right, I on the other hand have a more conservative/ProAmerican point of view. I very rarely respond with a negative remark but will throw one back if it is needed..... As far as I am concerned the matter is closed...

Have a Nice Day




God Bless America

Works for me!
I don't necessarily think like a liberal, in fact I am actually somewhat right of Atilla The Hun. However my eyes are open and I am not afraid to question my government and it's motives, I was guarenteed the excercise of that right in the Constitution and BoR. Remember? Unquestioningly following .gov policy is the response of sheep, and exactly what the liberals want of the sheeple, makes them much easier to control. Free thinkers are a thorn in the side of the liberal movement.

I am fully aware that Barak needs no one "hovering" over him for protection, but I AM entitled to my opinion as are YOU, or does that bother you?

Blindly following the party line is foolish and never intended by the Founding Fathers, hell if they had, we would still kneel before the throne of England.

As you say "It's over", well till the next time Sir. I am not as elequent as Barak, but I don't back down either unless someone can SHOW me the error of my thinking. I don't intimidate by way of threat or inuendo. "SHOW ME THE FACT'S" or as Joe Friday used to say. "Just the fact's Mam/Sir, just the fact's". I have no time for the emotional side of such serious matters, that's for the liberals when they can't respond with fact's and logic.

Have a good one, I now leave it to moulder upon the heaps in cyberspace.

Okay, I admit it, you suckered me in.

(Thanks for having my back, there, amigo.)

Which of my points of view would you label as Liberal?

My rabidly pro-gun stance, perhaps? (I agree with L Neil Smith that until a twelve-year-old girl can walk into a hardware store and slap down cash on the barrelhead and walk out with a fully-automatic machine gun, without filling out any papers or asking permission from anyone but her parents, there's too much gun control in this country.)

How about my stand on abortion? (Morally it's murder in all cases except those of self-defense; legally it should be regulated by the states, not the feds.)

Mmm...my position on the income tax? (Eliminate it, and replace it with nothing.)

Universal suffrage? (It's a bad idea: anyone who receives any form of unearned entitlement or benefit from the government should not be allowed to vote for a year: it's a conflict of interest.)

Increased government funding for education? (Stop it cold: all schools should be private.)

Fiat currency? (Go back to the gold standard.)

Where are those liberal points of view?

Are you under the impression that everyone except liberals worships Baby Bush? Is that (the fact that I think he's a power-grabbing megalomaniac) why you think I'm liberal?

I would say he is a very educated man. Educated and intelligent are two entirely different animals.

Well, I must really be slowing down in my advanced years. You see, I had a bit of an
epiphany this morning while watching the network news.

What has happened in this country since 9/11? I'll tell you what, we have been running
around like "Chicken Little" crying "The sky is falling", desperately looking for a target
for our righteous rage at the attacks, in doing this, we have ceased to pay attention to
most of the real problems in society here, and the world in general. What we have been
doing, is focusing on Saddam and not the terrorists. Yeah, we got lucky and the Paki's
caught one of Bin Laden's top men for us, but the focus has been on Saddam.
Meanwhile our oil prices are skyrocketing due mostly to a strike in Venezuela, the
market is unstable, tourism is off, airport security has become a comedy of errors at
GREAT expense to taxpayers,national paranoia is at an all time high, we have a new
cabinet level position with yet another burdensome bureaucracy (at our expense)to do
little but alarm the sheeple that can not or will not THINK for themselves. Duct tape
and Plastic sheeting anyone? Give me a break! Much ado about threats real and
imagined, whipping the armchair commando's into to a frenzy over a little [bleep]
country in the mid-east, all the while spending money hand over fist on it. OUR TAXES
and SOCIAL SECURITY/VETERANS BENEFITS funds. All the while our children are being
cheated out of an education via public schools that do not focus on education, rather
social programming. They lower the standards to accommodate and make the
kids "feel good about themselves" rather than raising the bar and challenging them,
nay, teaching them to LEARN. To strive for accomplishment and the satisfaction of a
job well done.

We encourage people to not work and strive for a better life, by telling them they are
"entitled" to the benefits and fruits of others labor instead. Sound's a bit like socialism,
not liberty to me! Karl Marx would be proud of us!

Does all this ring a bell? What did we do to the former Soviet Union and Com-Block
countries? We put them into economic ruin, causing them do the very same things. We
broke them economically! What is North Korea doing? Starving their people by spending
the vast majority of their national product on an unnecessarily large military, they are
almost bankrupt thanks to that policy. We are defeating ourselves hunting non-existent
witches! The PRC would do the same, were it not for trade with the U.S. What's wrong
with this picture?

This whole mess stinks of the Gulf of Tonkin, or even further back, "Remember the
Maine".

I believe that if we don't change focus, FAST, we are going to accomplish the terrorists
goals for them, the closing of our society and free way of life. We will become
financially and morally bankrupt. A society like the former Soviet Union. Oh, we will
maintain the facade of freedom for a few more years, maybe a couple of generations in fact,
but sooner or later the government will be totally changed from "Of the People, by the
People, for the People" to "Of the government, by government mandate, to the people".

Bravo, T LEE.

T LEE

We have become paranoid since 9-11. We are doing exactly what the
terriorists wanted. It would be impossible for them to destroy our freedoms but we are doing it for them. Most of this is attributed to our politicians on both sides of the aisle wanting to get their name and pix in the papers for reelection.

No one can deny that 9=11 was horrible and an act ofwar. Our overreaction is only accomplishing the terrorists goal.

Personally, I would like to bring our troops home and cut off our aid to those who aren't for us. No one can be bought, so why be the sucker and pay for our own problems. I really don't mean isolationism. But more practical application of involvement of our resources.

I think T Rosevelts big stick policy should apply. For what it is worth.