Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Calvinist?

I know it. Too bad for you.

You really can't get over yourself. The Being Who created the universe does not think like you. You don't realize we are in a spiritual warfare. The devil loves to deceive and you are a prime example of one who is doubly so.

Not directed at anyone, just an observation. Many who don’t believe usually have pretty good reasons for *not* believing. You gotta give people room to not believe. Even some of the people who were with Jesus did *not* believe until *after* the Resurrection.

As stated already, the Romans often allowed people of occupied territories to carry on with their own system
And in the time of Jesus it is no different , with him having gone on trial before the Sanhedrin Rabbi judges
before any Roman law process.

So how do you come to the conclusion that only the Roman prefect/governor implementing Roman law
could deal with/get rid of Jesus?

that is not strictly true.



if a firm deal has been struck to execute Jesus under Roman law (following the Sanhedrin trial before a bench of Rabbis),
then Its unlikely Pilate would then have sent Jesus to face trial under Herods jurisdictional court covering Galilee.

The Jews wanted Jesus put to death for blasdsphemy specifically, but the magnitude of a death penalty In Roman rule
provinces could only be sanctioned by the Roman magistrate as sole representative of the imperial authority – the imperium.
but the catch was - Roman legal system did not have the capital offence of blasphemy..so charge of high treason was put up.
which meant Jesus was now accused of Subverting Roman rule.

Though for such charge capital punishment was a possibility, you could alternatively be exiled (among other optional penalties)
Local magistrates such as legates, prefects, and procurators had power of life and death in their hands in the various Roman
provinces... thus Pilate, as the Prefect, had ultimate discretionary and as I understand - exclusive authority to implement capital
punishment withiin the larger Roman Judaea Province.

****
Now with Herod being a client 'King of Judea' under Rome - elected by the Roman Senate, . in actual fact he was a Tetrarch or ruler
of a principality within the larger Roman province of Judea under Pilate, and under heavy influence from such.
..WITH THAT the official legal system shifted from the Hebrew 'laws of the fathers' [Torah] to Roman law...meaning the once
autonomous powers of the Sanhedrin passed to Herod...that does not mean Herod was silly enough to dissolve the Sanhedrin,
but he did undermine their power....and where possible intervened in the administration of justice when it didn't risk revolt.

However, I am not aware of Herod having the power under Roman law to sanction a death penalty for Jesus, this power still rested
exclusively with Pilate as the prefect of Roman Judea province....hence I don't understand why Pilate sent Jesus to Herod
If he was seriously attempting to do his best to honor a deal with the Jews to see that Jesus receive the death penalty.

When Herod sent Jesus back to Pilate, the unos was now on Pilate to decide the fate of Jesus,
and as we know he was not enthusiastic about implementing capital punishment on the man.

Then why bring him before Pilot at all? Just stone him.

Rome allowed some level of autonomy to the Sanhedrin, not total level of autonomy,
as evidenced by scripture.
For the [particularly extreme] penalty they insisted on, the Jews acknowledged Roman authority - that it required Pilate.

John 18:31

NASB
So Pilate said to them, “Take Him yourselves, and judge Him according to your law.”
The Jews said to him, “We are not permitted to put anyone to death,”

NLT
“Then take him away and judge him by your own law,” Pilate told them.
“Only the Romans are permitted to execute someone,” the Jewish leaders replied.

KJV
Then said Pilate unto them, Take ye him, and judge him according to your law. The Jews therefore said unto him,
It is not lawful for us to put any man to death:



Sanhedrin’s authority covered legislation, administration and justice. There was religious, civil, and criminal jurisdiction.
but during the time of Jesus, they had relinquished to Rome the power of capital punishment, ie;... jus gladii.

We have no first hand account of Jesus, the trial and execution of Jesus or anything else. Only what is written in the Gospels, and they were written decades after the events they describe.

You believe you know it. Which is not the same as actually knowing it....like we do with something that is proven beyond reasonable doubt.

Nothing to do with me. It's not personal.

Logic is either valid or invalid regardless of who expresses it. Believing that something is true because it says so in the Bible, Quran, Gita or whatever does not make what is said in this or that 'holy book' true.

This has nothing to do with how I happen to think or how some proposed 'God' - whatever that may be - happens to think. It's just basic logic.

Fight or dont fight...The battle is already won is is not?..ie; the result is predestined = God wins.

God can't trust humans to back him in any situation...and God wouldn't create an adversary capable of defeating Him.

If a God exists and there is 'spiritual warfare,' the world is the way it is because God the All Knowing created it to be that way.

You need to examine the evidence, primarily the specific and detailed prophecies concerning Christ, given by Isaiah, Daniel and David, hundreds of years in advance.

Why would that be considered evidence? Besides the issue of that what it says in the source material is not evidence that the claims being made in that material are true and factual - eg, claims made in the Quran, Gita, etc, etc - the so called prophesies are open to interpretation. Plus the Christian interpretation is disputed by Judaism.

For example;
Prophecies to Identify the Messiah, Which Jesus Does Not Fulfill
1) Matthew 1:23 says that Jesus (the messiah) would be called Immanuel, which means “God with us.” Yet no one, not even his parents, call him Immanuel at any point in the bible.
2) The Messiah must be a physical descendant of David (Romans 1:3 & Acts 2:30). Yet, how could Jesus meet this requirement since his genealogies in Matthew 1 and Luke 3 show he descended from David through Joseph, who was not his natural father because of the Virgin Birth. Hence, this prophecy could not have been fulfilled.
3) Isaiah 7:16 seems to say that before Jesus had reached the age of maturity, both of the Jewish countries would be destroyed. Yet there is no mention of this prophecy being fulfilled in the New Testament with the coming of Jesus, hence this is another Messiah prophecy not fulfilled.