Game Warden told me this : make sure if you shoot a bear,that dead bear is pepper sprayed before i get there, so buy a can of bear pepper spray . TO your question > yes it does it helps keep the cost down on court cost,fines and attorney fees.
dumbest thing I've ever heard and totally wrong as to legalities.
We do not have "game wardens" here which opens up a lot more area... but I have heard similar.
just because you are an enforcer for the state, doesn't mean you can't be stupid at the same time. LEO often gives bad advice.
While I get the advice, its beyond stupid to even say it that way IMHO.
Just like they used to say drag the dead back into the house...
A bit of forensics, would tell that the spray was after the shot I suspect.
Its either a good shoot or not.
People in my boat with cans of bear spray bother me. LOL
Here it is very simple, say nothing except "I was afraid."
The truth and simple.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Not my fight. Thankfully the outfit I'll work for will tell the client WHEN to chamber.
That said Jorge you note that you don't want to trust a guide you have never met or know to save you in case of attack.
Same goes for me as a guide. I don't want you hot walking behind me because I dont' know you.
I'd say the chance of getting shot by a client vs being attacked by a bear, well getting shot would be more chance. IMHO.
Thankfully while fishing our clients have never wanted to bring a gun and trust us to save them if it ever comes to that.
Completely fair and justified point of view. My ONLY point was to counter Art's ridiculous, blanket and absolute statement that ALL Alaskan guides forbid the practice of clients carrying hot, which they do not. I don't expect him to own up, his past record in that field is well documented here...
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
IMO, it makes them aggressive. i think people need to practice on how to use Bear spray. there is a distance you have to be away from the bear. you just don't do it wrong and hope for the right results.
So you can go and pull a Gomer Pyle style citizen'a arrest circus? not hardly, at least not the first instance. As for the other two I quoted, it's on a public forum so here are a few. pm both sides. Once gain proving you wrong ..
here are the quotes plus the reference link: 1. Scott King: It just depends on the person and circumstance. I strongly advise my fishing clients to not bring a gun at all. They get in the way and we're 100% not going to need it, and if "lightning" does strike, there's other options than they having a gun. When hunting, again I think it's circumstantial. I wouldn't mention gun safety unless I needed to, nor would I mention loaded chambers if I didn't think I needed to. If I think I should address both I will. 2. World Wide Outfitter and Alaska resident Mark H Young: jorge,
I don't think the empty chamber thing is universal in AK at all. I think it is dependent on how the guide feels about the situation. As you know I lived in AK for many years. If I was hunting I had one up the spout always. I've hunted with folks that were fumbling for their rifle to get it loaded and the moose was gone.
Mark
MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES
3. :Adventure 907 (handle on AR): Circumstances certainly dictate when and where I have one in the chamber when guiding. For my sheep hunts, and the majority of my guiding, I nor the client will carry one in the chamber.
The exception is when I guide SouthEast Alaska brown bear hunts. We are often still hunting over extremely tight covered salmon streams. In these situations, we carry one in the chamber. Sometimes if we have to scale a log jam or other awkward terrain, we will pull one out of the pipe.
As a guide, there is no worse feeling than turning around and seeing a muzzle pointed at you, that is for sure.
The last (4) and arguably the most renowned , I will not name because it was sent to me via email but the quote is there about three posts above your repeated horsewhippings ...
So, the discussion was about bear hunting guides. I can look up the exact wording if you like. So for proof you name two individuals that are not and never have been hunting guides of any kind in AK. And you consider that a valid argument?
I can name a great many guides that laughed at your comments. Certainly Phil does not agree with you.
I am still waiting for the name of an AK Bear hunting guide agreeing with you. You said you talked to more than one at DSC. I seriously doubt that is factual. Instead I suggest you were speaking with salesmen appeasing a potential client.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
Not my fight. Thankfully the outfit I'll work for will tell the client WHEN to chamber.
That said Jorge you note that you don't want to trust a guide you have never met or know to save you in case of attack.
Same goes for me as a guide. I don't want you hot walking behind me because I dont' know you.
I'd say the chance of getting shot by a client vs being attacked by a bear, well getting shot would be more chance. IMHO.
Thankfully while fishing our clients have never wanted to bring a gun and trust us to save them if it ever comes to that.
Completely fair and justified point of view. My ONLY point was to counter Art's ridiculous, blanket and absolute statement that ALL Alaskan guides forbid the practice of clients carrying hot, which they do not. I don't expect him to own up, his past record in that field is well documented here...
Another cheap shot... why not just name the guide(s) agreeing with you?
They can all use a little advertising!
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
So you can go and pull a Gomer Pyle style citizen'a arrest circus? not hardly, at least not the first instance. As for the other two I quoted, it's on a public forum so here are a few. pm both sides. Once gain proving you wrong ..
here are the quotes plus the reference link: 1. Scott King: It just depends on the person and circumstance. I strongly advise my fishing clients to not bring a gun at all. They get in the way and we're 100% not going to need it, and if "lightning" does strike, there's other options than they having a gun. When hunting, again I think it's circumstantial. I wouldn't mention gun safety unless I needed to, nor would I mention loaded chambers if I didn't think I needed to. If I think I should address both I will. 2. World Wide Outfitter and Alaska resident Mark H Young: jorge,
I don't think the empty chamber thing is universal in AK at all. I think it is dependent on how the guide feels about the situation. As you know I lived in AK for many years. If I was hunting I had one up the spout always. I've hunted with folks that were fumbling for their rifle to get it loaded and the moose was gone.
Mark
MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES
3. :Adventure 907 (handle on AR): Circumstances certainly dictate when and where I have one in the chamber when guiding. For my sheep hunts, and the majority of my guiding, I nor the client will carry one in the chamber.
The exception is when I guide SouthEast Alaska brown bear hunts. We are often still hunting over extremely tight covered salmon streams. In these situations, we carry one in the chamber. Sometimes if we have to scale a log jam or other awkward terrain, we will pull one out of the pipe.
As a guide, there is no worse feeling than turning around and seeing a muzzle pointed at you, that is for sure.
The last (4) and arguably the most renowned , I will not name because it was sent to me via email but the quote is there about three posts above your repeated horsewhippings ...
Holy schit! You were posting opinions from AR! Laughing!
Just post a name! The fact you consider that proof is beyond amusing. The guy with the bona fides does not agree, again.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
I work in an outdoors store where we sell bear spray and yes, it does work on black bears. It is concentrated pepper spray that will work on anything that breathes air basically. In fact, because black bears are generally smaller than grizzlies it works better on them. As far as brand, I'm not really sure. The stuff we sell is 1% capsaicin so look for that. As for using a dog, the stats I've seen at work suggest that a dog is just as likely to see a bear, make it mad, then run back to you for protection with bear in tow. One other thing to note is that the mace that would be used on humans is NOT the same thing as bear spray. Mace is (I think) .25% capsaicin and the cans hold much much less than bear spray. Bear spray is under so much pressure that the recoil when fired is similar to a handgun. It's enough to drop a charging grizzly to it's knees so it can't get back up. Bear spray is strong enough that it can actually be lethal to anyone with a respiratory issue like asthma. Generally there are two sizes you can get. I really recommend the bigger size. We don't even sell the smaller size because if you don't get a good clean shot we don't feel the small can will be effective. Don't use bear bells. Again, the stats are iffy but there's no real evidence that they deter bears but there is some speculation that they attract cougars. The bells are also too quiet to be heard. I've walked up to people before and didn't even realize they had a bear bell until I had already seen them anyway. It's much safer to yell out "hey bear bear" regularly. Human voices are the only distinctly human sound we make and it's the only real way to let a bear know who you are.
So you can go and pull a Gomer Pyle style citizen'a arrest circus? not hardly, at least not the first instance. As for the other two I quoted, it's on a public forum so here are a few. pm both sides. Once gain proving you wrong ..
here are the quotes plus the reference link: 1. Scott King: It just depends on the person and circumstance. I strongly advise my fishing clients to not bring a gun at all. They get in the way and we're 100% not going to need it, and if "lightning" does strike, there's other options than they having a gun. When hunting, again I think it's circumstantial. I wouldn't mention gun safety unless I needed to, nor would I mention loaded chambers if I didn't think I needed to. If I think I should address both I will. 2. World Wide Outfitter and Alaska resident Mark H Young: jorge,
I don't think the empty chamber thing is universal in AK at all. I think it is dependent on how the guide feels about the situation. As you know I lived in AK for many years. If I was hunting I had one up the spout always. I've hunted with folks that were fumbling for their rifle to get it loaded and the moose was gone.
Mark
MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES
3. :Adventure 907 (handle on AR): Circumstances certainly dictate when and where I have one in the chamber when guiding. For my sheep hunts, and the majority of my guiding, I nor the client will carry one in the chamber.
[b]The exception is when I guide SouthEast Alaska brown bear hunts. We are often still hunting over extremely tight covered salmon streams. In these situations, we carry one in the chamber. Sometimes if we have to scale a log jam or other awkward terrain, we will pull one out of the pipe. [/b] As a guide, there is no worse feeling than turning around and seeing a muzzle pointed at you, that is for sure.
The last (4) and arguably the most renowned , I will not name because it was sent to me via email but the quote is there about three posts above your repeated horsewhippings ...
So, the discussion was about bear hunting guides. I can look up the exact wording if you like. So for proof you name two individuals that are not and never have been hunting guides of any kind in AK. And you consider that a valid argument?
I can name a great many guides that laughed at your comments. Certainly Phil does not agree with you.
I am still waiting for the name of an AK Bear hunting guide agreeing with you. You said you talked to more than one at DSC. I seriously doubt that is factual. Instead I suggest you were speaking with salesmen appeasing a potential client.
Are you THAT STUPID? (rhetorical of course). What does "GUIDE" mean in the sentences above?
And from one of my first posts where my friend Ben from Texas hunted with SAM FEJES: " I was hot the entire time I was physically in the field.
I do not recall that the topic ever came up."
On the ground in bear country w/a unloaded gun??!! I don't think so.
I called and spoke with Ben again just to ensure, but now of course you're calling me a liar. Typical . Then again I should have known better, given your integrity issues here, but go ahead and welch again, you know like when you stole that stock..... You're right about one thing though, there's no way I'd ever hunt with the likes of you...
And of course, let us not lose sight of the original QUOTE from the article:
Quote
....
. I carry a large caliber rifle in my hands, usually with a bullet in the chamber and the safety on.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
Another personal attack, but at least you put a name there. How do you think Sam will respond to the fact you put his name out there like this?
I am laughing and your only move is being a total dick. Please expound further on things you know nothing about.
And to be very, very clear you are relying on hearsay evidence and have NOT given one name that will enlist on your side. You are not going to find an AK guide willing to come down on your side in public. Privately you may find one trying to appease a potential client.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
I work in an outdoors store where we sell bear spray and yes, it does work on black bears. It is concentrated pepper spray that will work on anything that breathes air basically. In fact, because black bears are generally smaller than grizzlies it works better on them. As far as brand, I'm not really sure. The stuff we sell is 1% capsaicin so look for that. As for using a dog, the stats I've seen at work suggest that a dog is just as likely to see a bear, make it mad, then run back to you for protection with bear in tow. One other thing to note is that the mace that would be used on humans is NOT the same thing as bear spray. Mace is (I think) .25% capsaicin and the cans hold much much less than bear spray. Bear spray is under so much pressure that the recoil when fired is similar to a handgun. It's enough to drop a charging grizzly to it's knees so it can't get back up. Bear spray is strong enough that it can actually be lethal to anyone with a respiratory issue like asthma. Generally there are two sizes you can get. I really recommend the bigger size. We don't even sell the smaller size because if you don't get a good clean shot we don't feel the small can will be effective. Don't use bear bells. Again, the stats are iffy but there's no real evidence that they deter bears but there is some speculation that they attract cougars. The bells are also too quiet to be heard. I've walked up to people before and didn't even realize they had a bear bell until I had already seen them anyway. It's much safer to yell out "hey bear bear" regularly. Human voices are the only distinctly human sound we make and it's the only real way to let a bear know who you are.
Twice I have been there when bear spray was used in huge quantities and it failed to save either bear's life...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
Another personal attack, but at least you put a name there. How do you think Sam will respond to the fact you put his name out there like this?
I am laughing and your only move is being a total dick. Please expound further on things you know nothing about.
And to be very, very clear you are relying on hearsay evidence and have NOT given one name that will enlist on your side. You are not going to find an AK guide willing to come down on your side in public. Privately you may find one trying to appease a potential client.
So what happened to your challenge of "just one name"? Now you modify it with the qualifier "in public", which, STUPID, has been my often stated reticence to provide one. What an artful dodge. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds. If you go back to the start, it was YOUR casting of the first stone that started this. Then you ask to put a name out there and when I am reticent to do so, you call me a liar (ergo the personal and valid invectives). Then when I do put the name out there because *MY* integrity is in question, you chastise because I put the name "out there" and in no way was being disparaging towards Sam, in fact HE would get my business with his reasonable approach of when to carry hot or not. I was just merely relating what my friend, HIS CLIENT told me about carrying hot. It was YOU, who issued the first insult and a now proven false statement that ALL guides in Alaska proscribe carrying hot.
Oh, just got off the phone with Mike Stroff of Savage Outdoors TV show. Both him and his dad just got back from a moose hunt (to be shown on his TV shoe next year) and guess what? the second they got off the skiff and go after the moose he eventually shot and with bear tracks all around the bank and guess what? they went hot. WAY before the moose was seen. Perhaps next time if you disagree with someone you might want to take a different tact by maybe saying "the overwhelming majority of guide in Alaska do not want clients to carry hot" or words to that effect, other than "get off your high horse" I don't enjoy this, I really don't, but if you think I was just going to sit idle while you threw crap at me, well there it is. AS to Sam. if he is at DSC this year and he's taken umbrage (assuming you are calling him as a write this to Gomer Pyle citizen's arrest my ass), I will personally apologize . As to you, it'll be a cold day in hell...
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
Honest question from a guy that will not be traveling to brown bear country anytime soon, I read stories where the human say they did not have time to use their firearm and I completely believe them. If a bear came at me I would be thinking about where my toilet paper was. Here is my question: if you don't have time for a gun, how would you have time for a can of bear spray?
# I have no idea sir. I've never hunted the Big Bears (only black) and I do not subscribe to the bear spray defense if given the option. All I can tell you is I have hunted where dangerous game abound and I always carried locked and loaded. J
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
But just to show you I'm a fair guy, Mike just called me to say "most guides in Alaska will make you carry with no round in the chamber, they are all that way, very standard...
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
My reasons for not accepting Sam should be obvious. But let me spell them out for you: You are using hearsay from another. You did not get Sam to say he lets people run hot chambers and we know nothing of the specifics of the hunt.
And, more specifically, I might know a bit about how Sam hunts.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
