Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters MD - 7x57 "Creedmoor"

John:

Did you happen to catch Dave Anderson's article in Guns (Dec 19) on the 7x57 being a sort of long action Creedmoor? I was just wondering what your thoughts are. Evidently, those long throats for the old cartridge might come in handy after all!

Mike

Mike. Not Mule Deer but I just read it myself. Interesting concept. I have the push feed M70 FWT, and an early red pad Ruger #1 in 7x57. My Mauser has the 1 in 8.5" twist but if giving me fits due to high pressure problems. Gonna have to take some measurements the next time out at the range. The rifle has a very tight chamber and fired brass barely shows a pressure ring at all so I'm thinking the rifle was chambered with a reamer that was sharpened maybe one time too many and the neck portion of the chamber might be quite tight. Guess I'll have to use a few rounds of factory and hand loads and get measurements from both. I've noted before that hand load made to duplicate the 1892/3 load with 175 gr. bullets gave normal velocities but the Mauser 100 FPS higher and then some. Even so, I can't come close to what the M70 and #1 do in velocity with he Mauser.
BTW, have you seen the new Speer #15 Manual? It's got some interesting speeds for the 7x57. I was kind of worried about my Re17 load that did 2900 FPS as maybe being a bit too much but while Speer didn't use Re17 with a 150 gr. bullet they did with their 160 gr. bullet and it's just below what I use for the 150 gr. Nosler. With Re17 they start with 40.4gr. for 2460 FPS and top out at 44.0 for 2646 FPS. They used a 24" barrel.

Mike. Not Mule Deer but I just read it myself. Interesting concept. I have the push feed M70 FWT, and an early red pad Ruger #1 in 7x57. My Mauser has the 1 in 8.5" twist but if giving me fits due to high pressure problems. Gonna have to take some measurements the next time out at the range. The rifle has a very tight chamber and fired brass barely shows a pressure ring at all so I'm thinking the rifle was chambered with a reamer that was sharpened maybe one time too many and the neck portion of the chamber might be quite tight. Guess I'll have to use a few rounds of factory and hand loads and get measurements from both. I've noted before that hand load made to duplicate the 1892/3 load with 175 gr. bullets gave normal velocities but the Mauser 100 FPS higher and then some. Even so, I can't come close to what the M70 and #1 do in velocity with he Mauser.
BTW, have you seen the new Speer #15 Manual? It's got some interesting speeds for the 7x57. I was kind of worried about my Re17 load that did 2900 FPS as maybe being a bit too much but while Speer didn't use Re17 with a 150 gr. bullet they did with their 160 gr. bullet and it's just below what I use for the 150 gr. Nosler. With Re17 they start with 40.4gr. for 2460 FPS and top out at 44.0 for 2646 FPS. They used a 24" barrel.

VLD bullets often need shorter throats, not longer.

Mike, I'm not Mule Deer either...but you knew that...

You should also know that it is the purest form of heresy to put "7x57" and "Creedmoor" in the same sentence, let alone the same paragraph or even article.

You need repentance ....bad.

Mike,

Haven't read GUNS in close to a year, since parting ways with them.

But the second chapter of GUN GACK II uses the 7x57 (specifically my custom rifle) to demonstrate the advantages of higher BC in moderate-velocity rifles.

Well John it looks like you just sold me another book! After adding my 3rd 7x57 two weeks ago, an older Ruger no. 1 to go along with my Hawkeye African 275 and CZ 550 l’m hungry for more reference material.

Interesting comments; much appreciated.

I need repentance from a lot of things!!

I wondered about that considering that there is an article written by you on page 48 of the same issue. I'll pull Gack II and re-read it. Thanks for the tip.

That was a leftover article, that for some reason they decided to hold rather than run it at the scheduled time. I just got the check the other day, but no contributor's copy of the issue--at least so far.

Ah. That makes sense.

BTW, I'm going to derail my own thread. Did I read someplace that you bought one of the new Mausers? Maybe a M12 or M18?

I haven't read the Guns article but if you examine the throat diameter on the Creedmoor vs. the 7x57, you'll find that one of the Creedmoor's greatest attributes (extremely limited throat-to-bullet clearance) is not comparable on the 7x57, at least according to the CIP drawings.

I'm certainly not Mule Deer.

Let's be clear on that.

Thank you.

Right. But I think his point was that the longer throat on the 7x57 allows the bullets to be seated farther out, thereby not encroaching on powder space with heavy for caliber bullets, one of the things the Creedmoor was designed to avoid.

On that point, it's a fair comparison. I only shoot 175gr. Partitions in my 7x57 so I guess I'm ahead of the game.

Actually, the Creedmoor was NOT designed with powder space in mind, but being able to seat longer bullets securely, without part of the ogive inside the neck.

Plus, it takes a large-caliber bullet seated DEEPLY in a small-capacity case to even make 100 fps of difference in velocity. In smaller calibers like 6.5 the difference in powder space when, say, seating bullets 1/4" deeper is so small it's insignificant.

John,

Mr. Anderson had a picture of a high BC bullet loaded in both the 7x57 and .280 Rem. The ogive of the bullet was inside the neck on the .280, not even close on the 7x57.

Both the Ingwe Special and my old Zastava M98 like them a lot.

Yes, that can be true--but also depends on magazine length, and also throat length of 7x57's.

But my point involved your claim that the 6.5 Creedmoor was designed to allow bullets to be seated out there they don't decrease powder room. That is not true. In fact, the CM case body is short enough that powder capacity is slightly less LESS than the .260 Remington's , no matter what bullet is used.

The major point was NOT powder capacity, but the ogive/neck relationship in standard short magazines, which are about 2.85 inches long.