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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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IMO the beauty of the 6.5 is the low recoil!
Once you step up to the recoil of the 6.5 PRC one might as well go 7mm at that point for the superior ballistics. Just my opinion YMMV
Trystan
Good bullets properly placed always work, but not everyone knows what good bullets are, or can reliably place them in the field
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,167 Likes: 2 |
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69 Pro-Constitution. LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,148 Likes: 1 |
Once you step up to the recoil of the 6.5 PRC one might as well go 7mm at that point for the superior ballistics. Tell us more.......
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 15,648 |
When paired with the highest BC bullets, the 6.5 PRC occupies a narrowish niche covering extremely extended ranges in breezier locales. It's short 30 grains of powder and the accompanying concussion, blast, and recoil a 26 Nosler requires. The PRC also has treble the barrel life of a fully overbore uber magnum. Does everyone need a 6/5 PRC, no, absolutely not. If I was going to shoot lots of lower value targets at extended ranges in high winds or even lots of steel under even more extended ranges, the 6.5PRC/GAP makes some sense.
Consider a separate comparison. For shooting medium and large game at extended ranges, if I had a choice between the PRC behind a 156 EOL and a 28 Nosler and the 195 EOL, I'm taking the 195 every time. One might imagine circumstances that favor a shorter, more compact and less violent tool, but, as I write this, one doesn't come to mind. Does your new build in 6.5 GAP you referenced earlier occupy this narrowish niche or is it a low value target steel/wind rifle? What would you consider extended ranges at medium/large game to feel the need to make that Nosler from prc/saum leap? Just curious if you've had a field experience to inform your thought process to make that jump... The OP is a PA deer hunter. We both grew up hunting deer in and around the Allegheny Mountains. I only responded to this thread because it was John asking. As would be expected, my responses were shaped by this and to a great extent he was my intended audience. I'm not a Coos deer hunter and while the PRC might fit the bill, that's a subject better responded to by someone like you. I had a Seekins Havak PH1 in 6.5 PRC. It was delivered in January the week before SHOT. My load development and testing is posted in numerous threads and in the 6.5 PRC FB groups. The axis buck I shot with the rifle in May is covered in another thread. If I were shooting coyotes and hogs out to 800+, the PRC/GAP would be great. I say this after having used the 28N for exactly that, low value targets (hogs/coyotes) out to 800+ at the Hog Hunt this past March. The plan was to take the Havak PRC, but I struggled to get a load developed and swapped the 28N in at the last minute. Total overkill, but it was ready to go. Everything about the 28N is expensive, brass, barrel life, N570, everything. Bitching about carbon fiber barrel life on your custom 28N is like bitching about having to buy tires for your Ferrari. It's just the nature of the beast. If I'm traveling out west for a Wilson unit Roosevelt Elk hunt or to Wyoming or Montana or... to hunt Mule Deer, Antelope, Elk, etc. at 400+. I'm taking the Ryan Pierce built 28 Nosler. I have it, It's a hammer, I'm confident in it, etc. Since June, I've shot got a couple thousand rounds of 6.5CM at matches and in practice. Initially, my primary hand load was with the 147ELDM. Later, I transitioned to the 156EOL. This is also documented in numerous threads. I've got lots of confidence in this rifle too, but it's only pushing the 156 at 2780. Regarding the Havak. I hated the stock. I loved the CF mag. The barrel on mine copper fouled like crazy and took a couple hundred rounds to settle down. The factory ammo I had demonstrated broad extreme spreads and lacked accuracy. I'd only bought the factory ammo because, in January, 2019, it was a way to get brass. My early load development for the PRC was with H1000 as RL26 was unobtanium. RL26 was a godsend and really turned things around in that rifle. I sold the rifle with 277 rounds down the tube. At the end of the day I determined, for a hand loader, the 6.5GAP/SAUM was likely the better 6.5PRC. Shorter COAL is a better fit in binderless AICS mags, choice in throat geometry, higher velocities, etc. Finally, I'll reiterate, the Allegheny mountains and surrounding farms aren't the ideal place for a 6.5 PRC or a 28 Nosler. Oh, hunting free range rutting axis in hill country river bottoms is also not an ideal place for the 6.5 PRC or 28 Nosler. Copy. Just curious. If you are running a 156 at 2780, you don't need anything else. You don't need the big stuff for just about anything. Those rifles are the extreme niche....
- Greg
Success is found at the intersection of planning, hard work, and stubbornness.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2018
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IMO the beauty of the 6.5 is the low recoil!
Once you step up to the recoil of the 6.5 PRC one might as well go 7mm at that point for the superior ballistics. Just my opinion YMMV
Trystan Wrong. š
Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog āMolon Labeā
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
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When paired with the highest BC bullets, the 6.5 PRC occupies a narrowish niche covering extremely extended ranges in breezier locales. It's short 30 grains of powder and the accompanying concussion, blast, and recoil a 26 Nosler requires. The PRC also has treble the barrel life of a fully overbore uber magnum. Does everyone need a 6/5 PRC, no, absolutely not. If I was going to shoot lots of lower value targets at extended ranges in high winds or even lots of steel under even more extended ranges, the 6.5PRC/GAP makes some sense.
Consider a separate comparison. For shooting medium and large game at extended ranges, if I had a choice between the PRC behind a 156 EOL and a 28 Nosler and the 195 EOL, I'm taking the 195 every time. One might imagine circumstances that favor a shorter, more compact and less violent tool, but, as I write this, one doesn't come to mind. Does your new build in 6.5 GAP you referenced earlier occupy this narrowish niche or is it a low value target steel/wind rifle? What would you consider extended ranges at medium/large game to feel the need to make that Nosler from prc/saum leap? Just curious if you've had a field experience to inform your thought process to make that jump... The OP is a PA deer hunter. We both grew up hunting deer in and around the Allegheny Mountains. I only responded to this thread because it was John asking. As would be expected, my responses were shaped by this and to a great extent he was my intended audience. I'm not a Coos deer hunter and while the PRC might fit the bill, that's a subject better responded to by someone like you. I had a Seekins Havak PH1 in 6.5 PRC. It was delivered in January the week before SHOT. My load development and testing is posted in numerous threads and in the 6.5 PRC FB groups. The axis buck I shot with the rifle in May is covered in another thread. If I were shooting coyotes and hogs out to 800+, the PRC/GAP would be great. I say this after having used the 28N for exactly that, low value targets (hogs/coyotes) out to 800+ at the Hog Hunt this past March. The plan was to take the Havak PRC, but I struggled to get a load developed and swapped the 28N in at the last minute. Total overkill, but it was ready to go. Everything about the 28N is expensive, brass, barrel life, N570, everything. Bitching about carbon fiber barrel life on your custom 28N is like bitching about having to buy tires for your Ferrari. It's just the nature of the beast. If I'm traveling out west for a Wilson unit Roosevelt Elk hunt or to Wyoming or Montana or... to hunt Mule Deer, Antelope, Elk, etc. at 400+. I'm taking the Ryan Pierce built 28 Nosler. I have it, It's a hammer, I'm confident in it, etc. Since June, I've shot got a couple thousand rounds of 6.5CM at matches and in practice. Initially, my primary hand load was with the 147ELDM. Later, I transitioned to the 156EOL. This is also documented in numerous threads. I've got lots of confidence in this rifle too, but it's only pushing the 156 at 2780. Regarding the Havak. I hated the stock. I loved the CF mag. The barrel on mine copper fouled like crazy and took a couple hundred rounds to settle down. The factory ammo I had demonstrated broad extreme spreads and lacked accuracy. I'd only bought the factory ammo because, in January, 2019, it was a way to get brass. My early load development for the PRC was with H1000 as RL26 was unobtanium. RL26 was a godsend and really turned things around in that rifle. I sold the rifle with 277 rounds down the tube. At the end of the day I determined, for a hand loader, the 6.5GAP/SAUM was likely the better 6.5PRC. Shorter COAL is a better fit in binderless AICS mags, choice in throat geometry, higher velocities, etc. Finally, I'll reiterate, the Allegheny mountains and surrounding farms aren't the ideal place for a 6.5 PRC or a 28 Nosler. Oh, hunting free range rutting axis in hill country river bottoms is also not an ideal place for the 6.5 PRC or 28 Nosler. Copy. Just curious. If you are running a 156 at 2780, you don't need anything else. You don't need the big stuff for just about anything. Those rifles are the extreme niche.... Dude... you donāt watch enough TV... Iāve shot the 6.5 SAUM, 4S, 6.5x300 SAUM (whatever variant you wanna call it) extensively. Starting back before it became a thing and you made your own brass. Itās no āeasier to handloadā for than the PRCs I fool with now. Spec a FB to your warm and fuzzy if building from scratch or school up on factory offering and their COAL restraints. The PRC is doing everything for me the SAUMs did. Granted there is a skosh less displacement in the PRC, but Iāll take the minimal velocity ālossā with the good factory ammo being an option. Iām digging what a suppressed 18ā 6.5 PRC is doing currently with tailored handloads....
Last edited by joshf303; 10/31/19.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
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Thanks Kingston, you gave me a lot to think about..... the Luddite in me says 6.5-06 long action or 6.5 Creed short..... Or, you could go full-bore rifle loony like I did and have Redneck build a 6.5x280AI. Ed
"Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell
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Joined: Oct 2016
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,688 |
IMO the beauty of the 6.5 is the low recoil!
Once you step up to the recoil of the 6.5 PRC one might as well go 7mm at that point for the superior ballistics. Just my opinion YMMV
Trystan Wrong. š How exactly? Your counter argument was rather uninfomational
Good bullets properly placed always work, but not everyone knows what good bullets are, or can reliably place them in the field
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1 |
Copy. Just curious.
If you are running a 156 at 2780, you don't need anything else. You don't need the big stuff for just about anything. Those rifles are the extreme niche....
For sure, but I have the parts and it should be one sexy rifle. I thought about doing an 7SST, but a 7-08AI would probably be almost as effective and a lot more fun. Iāve got an EVO with a mag bf sitting at Scottās. Thereās still time to talk myself into something else. Maybe a 6.5 GAP4S setup for Hammer Hunters. I need to look at throat geometry. Iām in no hurry with all thatās on my plate.
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,148 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,148 Likes: 1 |
IMO the beauty of the 6.5 is the low recoil! Once you step up to the recoil of the 6.5 PRC one might as well go 7mm at that point for the superior ballistics. Just my opinion YMMV Wrong. How exactly? Your counter argument was rather uninfomational As is your initial comment.....
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,878 Likes: 2 |
I've been using my GAP 6.5 PRC, for long range steel, and i'm good to 1760 yrds, also have taken Gemsbok, Wildebeast, Elk, Whitetail, Axis, Nilgi, Pigs, and a few other critters,no feeding problems, never have fired a factory rnd in my rifle. I have never had to shoot a critter twice.
I have found the 6.5 PRC to be easy to load for and a good all around chambering, YMMV Rio7
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1 |
Dude... you donāt watch enough TV...
Iāve shot the 6.5 SAUM, 4S, 6.5x300 SAUM (whatever variant you wanna call it) extensively. Starting back before it became a thing and you made your own brass. Itās no āeasier to handloadā for than the PRCs I fool with now. Spec a FB to your warm and fuzzy if building from scratch or school up on factory offering and their COAL restraints.
The PRC is doing everything for me the SAUMs did. Granted there is a skosh less displacement in the PRC, but Iāll take the minimal velocity ālossā with the good factory ammo being an option. Iām digging what a suppressed 18ā 6.5 PRC is doing currently with tailored handloads....
I assume youāre talking to me. I donāt watch any hunting on TV, if thats what you mean. At this point non-custom Factory ammo has two limitations. 1. you only get 2 bullet choices (143 ELDX and 147ELDM), 2. thereās no guarantee itās going to shoot well in any given rifle. Both factory loads shot between marginal and dog shĆÆt in my Havak. If youāve got a factory rifle with a SAAMI 6.5 PRC chamber/throat that shoots factory ammo lights out and youāre satisfied with the bullet selection, then all is goodācorrected, all is great! After my run with the Havak PH1 6.5 PRC I figured if Iām building a rifle, buying ADG brass and hand loading, advantage 6.5 GAP 4S. The Havakās carbon fiber mag is wasted on factory ammo. I considered rebarreling the PH1 to make use of itās 3.25ā mag length, but the stock and I didnāt jive. Then Beaver talked me out of one of the four EVOs I picked up after SHOT and built a beautiful 6.5 PRC. Iāve had the same Rem Varmint pattern McWoodie stock he used sittiing here fo 2 years. So, I figured I do one like his, but in 6.5 GAP4S. Thatās how it goes.
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 13,174 Likes: 1 |
Pharm, whatās the energy difference? I donāt pay attention to energy, but since the bullets are close in weight (143 vs 150) I would suspect the energy differential to approximate the velocity differential. So in terms of both velocity and energy the 6.5 PRC is the 7mm-08 plus 150 yards. Which isnāt significant inside of 450 yards. If youāre shooting a looong way it might matter for elk, but not deer. Iāve killed multiple mulies beyond 500 yards with a 140 grain Partition started at 2880. P
Obey lawful commands. Video interactions. Hold bad cops accountable. Problem solved.
~MolÉĢĖn LabĆ© SkĆ½la~
Member #547 Join date 3/09/2001
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I was more than "slightly intrigued" so I bought a Sauer 100 this spring. Decided to just shoot it and forget the break -in stuff. Satisfied with middle of the road load of 130 AB at 3050fps getting .675 for 3 shots at 100. Just trying to find something I want to shoot besides targets. This puts it in 270 win w/140 AB territory and I'm fine with that. It rings my 400 yd gong every time.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,834 |
Well, I was hoping that my 6.5PRC build would be done by now. Everything is in hand, except the barrel. Had the barrel in my hands, but the muzzle was not threaded, as I had asked and paid for. Sent it back for re-work. Should have it in my hands late next week. Hopefully by the time the barrel is back in-hand the weather has cleared a bit and I can run it thru its paces.
FWIW, I followed Aalf's lead and built mine on a LA magnum, Specifically, the Bighorn Origin.
I never thought I'd grow up to be a grumpy old man, but I did, and I'm killin' it.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,688 |
IMO the beauty of the 6.5 is the low recoil! Once you step up to the recoil of the 6.5 PRC one might as well go 7mm at that point for the superior ballistics. Just my opinion YMMV Wrong. How exactly? Your counter argument was rather uninfomational As is your initial comment..... My initial comment said that was my "Opinion" based on what suits my needs not yours. I was simply stating that for myself I prefer 6.5s in the 40ish grains of powder category. The statement was for me and me only, not you, or anyone else for that matter! In fact I said "YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY" just incase you weren't listening. Good grief I've never in my life seen so many men with sensitive feelers as I have here on the campfire! I'll try to be more sensitive in the future Trystan
Good bullets properly placed always work, but not everyone knows what good bullets are, or can reliably place them in the field
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,148 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,148 Likes: 1 |
IMO the beauty of the 6.5 is the low recoil! Once you step up to the recoil of the 6.5 PRC one might as well go 7mm at that point for the superior ballistics. Just my opinion YMMV Wrong. How exactly? Your counter argument was rather uninfomational As is your initial comment..... My initial comment said that was my "Opinion" based on what suits my needs not yours. I was simply stating that for myself I prefer 6.5s in the 40ish grains of powder category. The statement was for me and me only, not you, or anyone else for that matter! In fact I said "YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY" just incase you weren't listening. Good grief I've never in my life seen so many men with sensitive feelers as I have here on the campfire! I'll try to be more sensitive in the future That was my point, it was your opinion, with no facts to back your "superior" ballistic claims. I've built a 338/300 Ultra specifically for shooting to a mile plus, which it did, and stayed super to 2K. Sold it, and built a 7x300 WM, 3 lbs lighter, no brake, and easier to shoot. Also stayed super to 2K. Sold that, and built a 6.5 PRC. Less recoil yet, and still stayed super to 2K.
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
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I respect Kingston's opinions..and he's likely right. It's also likely I'll buy one just cause.
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I respect Kingston's opinions..and he's likely right. It's also likely I'll buy one just cause. This is all the reason one needs!
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Joined: Jan 2010
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1 |
An for the record, I donāt know shĆÆt, but I do my damnedest to be thorough. grin
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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