Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters I’m confused 250/3000 vs 257 Roberts

The .257 Roberts has about a 25% powder capacity advantage over the .250-3000, on average with various kinds of brass, and a 100-grain lead core bullet seated to standard OAL. This means an approximate 8% velocity advantage for the Roberts when the same bullets are shot in the same barrel length, with optimum powders for both rounds. If a .250 load gets 3000 fps in a 24" barrel, the .257 should get around 3185 in a 24" at the same pressure.

rosco1--No, the low SAAMI pressures for the .250 and .257 are NOT due to them chambered in "surplus" rifles. Instead, the .250's is low due to being chambered from the get-go in the 99 Savage, which tended to be hard to open after firing hotter .250 handloads. The .257's is low due to being designed as a woodchuck cartridge by Ned Roberts, who found it more accurate at lower pressures, probably due to the relatively poorly balanced bullets of the day, which did not shoot as well at higher velocities. Remington followed his lead when turning the .257 into a factory round in 1934, and so did SAAMI.

There are far more powders available these days than back then.

So the the local hardware stores with steel barrel full of ratty 93’s chambered in 257 had nothing to do with the pressure limits?

Also of course the savage 99 is the reason for the 250. My mistake for not pointing out the extremely obvious. I’ll not leave the fly [bleep] in the pepper next time

The Savage SAAMI pressure is 45,000 CUP the Roberts 54,000 PSI and the +P is at 58,000 PSI. This is why the 257AI shows more improvement then some others as the parent cartridge is at a lower pressure. You would see the same level of improvement with the 250-3000AI or 25 Creedmoor.

They are all in about the same niche, and all are great deer cartridges. No need to stomp on these to get them to perform. If you want more velocity there is the 25-06 and 257 Weatherby.

I have seen it. Handloader September-Ocober 1974, Bob Hagel. 100 gr Speer HP



He published it in is book, too. Game Loads and Practical Ballistics for the American Hunter, 1992

Where is this hardware store with all of the ratty 1893 Mausers chambered in 257 Roberts located?

From what I've seen, American ammunition manufacturers generally load their ammo at pressures that will be safe in the weakest common rifle chambered for the cartridge. I think that is why 6.5x55 is loaded to be safe in Norwegian Krags, 7x57 is loaded to be safe in pre-1898 small ring Mausers, and 8x57 is loaded to be safe in 1888 Commission Rifles, even those with 0.318" bores, and 45-70 is loaded to be safe in trap-door Springfields. Or so it seems to me.

rosco1,

Like 260Rem, I would also like to know where those hardware stores full of 93 Mausers rebarreled to .257 Roberts appeared. I have an extensive collection of shooting literature, and can find no reference to such--and never heard of it from any of my older hunting friends either, many of whom would have been around if it occurred. Please explain where this occurred. I have seen barrels full of "war surplus" Lee-Enfield .303's in my day, and one barrel full of a cheaper version of the Remington 700, all in .308 Winchester, in a sporting goods store in Norway.

A more obvious fact is that since the .257 appeared as a factory round in 1934, there's no way a bunch of 93's were rebarreled to the factory round BEFORE it was introduced. They would have been rebarreled to Ned Roberts wildcat round--which had slightly different dimensions, so would have been a handloading-only round. I sincerely doubt a hardware store owner would stock a barrel full of wildcat rifles for which nobody could buy factory ammo.

The major point, however, is that if somebody did rebarrel a bunch of 93's for the factory .257, it would have had to happen AFTER the .257 Roberts became a SAAMI-approved factory round--which means the low pressure limit was NOT due to rebarreled 93 Mausers,

Have a nice day.

I'd like to know a bit more about your Ruger ... barrel length, especially ... and I'd like to know the specifics of your load : bullet, powder, primer, case brand, about the chronograph you used to determine velocity, and whether your load has been pressure-tested. I'm not intending to call your integrity into question, it just doesn't make a lot of sense that this could be achieved without exceeding SAAMI pressure standards.

I'm a .257 Roberts fan, but it can be a bit of a pain in the ass in a short action. My current .257's chamber calls for about a 2.9" OAL with sharply pointed bullets but 2.82" is the most the magazine allows so I have more jump than I like. I've considered rebarreling to .25 Souper or .250 Savage AI, but more likely if I ever do another .25 caliber it will be on a long action (.25-'06) or magnum (.257 Weatherby). I have other options like .308 that work better in a short action.

Tom

I picked up an old 77 ultralight in .257 Roberts last week. Anyone know where I can get some brass? Everywhere I have looked has been out of stock.

dd

h

Can you find any 6mm Remington brass?

If so it's just a simple step of necking up.

This is for 250 Savage, not 257 Roberts.

Yeah, I sure did hit the wrong one.

Thanks for the link.

Is it better to go up from 6mm Rem, or go down from 7x57?

Never made 257 brass from 6mm but did make 6mm from Robert's brass. Was pretty simple just going that .014 so I would probably go 6mm to Bob of it were me.

I did find some Roberts brass on ammoseek.com but it's higher than giraffe puzzy.

Going up is usually easier less chance of a donut or any need to neck turn, but check anyway. It can be done in one pass. 7mm to 25 might need to go 6.5mm first depending on the brass.

I just got 6mm Win. brass from Natchez for 20% off, might want to watch and see if they do another discount.

you can still find the business’s they were sold in but you missed it by 20-30 years, so you won’t find them anymore.

Coast to coast hardware, Smith & Edwards and Bobs marina. Local stores. All those stores had a sporterized barrel of 91,93,95,96 and 98’s and a separate barrel for non Sporters .

The sporter barrels were mostly full of Carl Gustav 6.5x55’s. But also had several 257’s, 308 and 243’s, among others but thought the 243 and 308 were worth mentioning, At least one of the 243’s was a 93 .must have been a local that thing? If so some of them traveled .. my 257 is stamped “made by A.D Forkey, Texas” it is a nicely executed rifle with a surprisingly nice wood stock. While every gun in the barrels were not 257’s, there were several 257’s to pick from.

I got mine at Bobs, don’t want to leave anything out.

You could find them by the crates of SKS and 30M1’s. I assumed that happened other places as well but maybe not.. I’m sure l’ll be set straight if not.

It does seem that weak actions wouldn’t be the reason for the low pressure factory ammo,but this is the first I’ve read that it’s absolutely not the reason, which makes sense given the timeline.

However it seems most loading manuals back then, when it came to the reason why stated “possibly because of weak actions “ I should have used “possibly” as a caveat to avoid chastising.

or “I don’t know why Remington did that, maybe they just knew it would happen ”which is what Ken Waters says in pet loads..

Regardless I won’t repeat that old wives tale anymore I was unaware this was solved.

I guess the pressure limit makes as much sense as the throat on them, which is said to be stubby because of short varmint bullets and blunt RN Roberts used. For Remington to follow suit makes about as much sense as a soup sandwich.

In short it sounds like a bunch of I don’t knows and maybes. Didn’t know the definitive was out there.


I am having a nice day thank you. Got a mixed bag of forest grouse this morning , gearing up for waterfowl this evening.

You have a nice day too.

Isn't that backwards? Going up you have potentially thicker shoulder material becoming neck. Voila, donut. Going down it's neck material becoming shoulder.

Yep, backwards.

For brass, check midway, cabela's, third generation, and powder valley. Maybe Sportsman's Warehouse online. There have been dry spells for .257 brass but it comes around eventually.

Tom