Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors Winchester 21 "Skeet" guns...common or rare?

Does anybody here know the production of 12 ga. Winchester M21's total, and the number within this of Skeet guns?

I'm trying to understand the relative scarcity of Skeet guns versus others within the M21 production run.

Thanks,
GC

If I recall correctly, the 12 ga made up approximately 60% of all gauges produced out of around 30,000 units. Skeet ga was only about 10% of units in all grades....

So likely somewhere less that 2,000 Skeet-marked guns were made in 12 ga.? Thanks for your information.

I just looked thru Ned Schwing's book, Winchester's Finest, the Model 21, and don't see the mfg. breakdown for Skeet and in gauges.

I have a Skeet 20 ga with A carving, choked Skeet 1 and 2. It handles great and is a keeper.

DF

It's the top gun in this photo

DF, very nice!

It fits me perfectly and is easy to shoot.

One of these days, I want to make a GA quail hunt. This gun would be perfect for that. Plenty of class without being gaudy. Would hold it's own with anyone's quail gun.

DF

Not referencing any numbers or production stats, just going on what you see in the market. I think skeet guns come up for sale often and are fairly easy to find. Tournament marked guns are more scarce. And Tournament/Skeet marked guns are rare, only sold for a couple years in 34/35 if I remember correctly.

Barrel length other than 26", chokes other than WS-1 right/WS-2 left, double triggers, vent rib, factory engraving, and upgraded wood/checkering (like Dirtfarmer's 20) are a few rarity/value-increasing variables......among unmolested skeet guns.

Sold a 12 ga skeet years ago, and it went higher than estimate (at the time) thanks to the 28" tubes.

those are all very nice Winchester shotguns ! and the model 21 is a real dream of a shotgun !

Built like a tank.

I heard a story of John Olin out in a duck blind with a good friend who had a high grade, sleek European or British double. The early 21's were sorta chunky. When his friend got him to compare the two guns, reportedly John came back to the shop and had them slender down the 21. It's not the sleekest double, but I would say if it's not the strongest, it's in the running for strongest. From all accounts, the 21 was Mr. Olin's pet project.

DF

I'm a huge Winchester model 21 fan.
While I've only owned a handful of them over the years, I've handle and shot many.

Winchester stamped all kinds of different things on the trigger plate... Tournament,
Tournament Skeet, Skeet, Trap, Trap Skeet, DeLux, Duck, etc. However, the gun COULD
be configured in any number of ways from the factory despite the trigger plate stamping!

I've owned five different SKEET marked guns. Two 12ga, a 16 ga, and two 20 ga guns.
Both 12's and one 20 were 26" guns with SKT #1 & SKT #2 chokes. The other 20, and
the 16 gauge, 28" with skeet chokes. As a side note, ALL 26" barreled "skeet" guns have
fallen from favor, longer barrels are the vogue now.

The guns are hell for stout. They are heavy for gauge, particularly the 12 gauge guns. The 16 gauge
is the sweet spot in my opinion, they tend to have the best handling characteristics (they are built
on the same frame size as the 20).

They were built with modern steels (4140) and top shelf heat treatment for their time period.
They generally have very "shootable" stock dimensions, excellent selective ejectors, and perhaps
the best single trigger ever put on a side x side! They rarely break, and if they do, Connecticut Shotgun
can fix it.

The only drawback to model 21's are their cost...

Now answering the OP's question. Don't worry about what's stamped on the trigger plate.
Get the barrel length and chokes that you want/need for your type of hunting. Chokes can be opened,
or machined for screw-ins. It's tough to make the barrel longer...

My .02 worth.

How many 12ga Model 21 guns left factory with WS1-WS2 choke combo? Good question. I don't know, but ask Americans on ShotgunWorld>>>Winchester Shotguns sub-forum. Guys like David Noreen, Bill Murphy,.....might give you an idea and their guess is better than vast majority out there. Ole' Cowboy was good with Winchester numbers and stats, but sadly he is long gone.

History says the 21 was selling poorly and while in a Duck blind with one of the Parker Brothers, Oliver Winchester said he was considering dropping it from the Winchester line.

Parker said they were extremely plain and made the suggestion to upgrade their appearance and offer embellished grades, which was followed thru on.


History lesson for the day.

Addition: As mentioned in the above post, which I failed to notice, John Olin is more correct.

Actually early ones with double triggers and splinter forend aren't that bad one can find 12ga sample with weight of around 7 lb or few ounces more. The only problem real nice original sample will likely set one back not far from $3000. For those balking at the price there is very viable alternative in form of New Ithaca Double. The late production ones made in USA w/o cocking indicators are actually more desirable. There is nothing wrong with less costly alternatives. For example, Ole' Englishman that could not afford a Boss, Purdey or Holland & Holland would be very well-served with a Grant. Matter of fact a fine substitute for Model 21 would be legendary 'Blue Rock' from W.W. Greener.

Thanks All, for your observations and suggestions.