|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,211 Likes: 9
Campfire 'Bwana
|
OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,211 Likes: 9 |
I was shooting my 45-70 Marlin Cowboy this afternoon. Brought out some old reloads with Vv n133 and 400 gr cast bullets. I was amazed at the corrosion on some of the cases. I shot one just to see what it would do, got a hollow sound, indicating the powder had deteriorated. Wonder how much powder deterioration is in the rounds not showing corrosion. BTW, climate controlled storage. I remember reading somewhere about Vv powder doing this, can't remember where. These load are probably 15 yrs old, but I'm guessing. W/W brass. Any info would be appreciated. I like Vv powder, haven't seen such as this with other powders. DF
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,644 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,644 Likes: 2 |
That's ugly!
Have you pulled a bullet or few to see what the inside of an unfired case looks like? I have found significant green corrosion from lubes, some worse than others. Just a thought.
Paul
Stupidity has its way, while its cousin, evil, runs rampant.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,211 Likes: 9
Campfire 'Bwana
|
OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,211 Likes: 9 |
Inside a fired case, doesn't look that bad. Will pull one and check powder.
DF
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 426
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 426 |
I have been loading V V N133 since the late 90's in 223. I've never seen anything like the photos.
YMMV, David
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,195 Likes: 24
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,195 Likes: 24 |
DF,
And where do to you live?
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,211 Likes: 9
Campfire 'Bwana
|
OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,211 Likes: 9 |
Not an easy photo for an iPhone... You can see a ring of corrosion at the base of the bullet.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,742 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,742 Likes: 5 |
DF, I don't think the powder is responsible for the corrosion. The area looks like it was resting against something that held moisture. Leather perhaps? Or stored in an area that gets damp.
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,211 Likes: 9
Campfire 'Bwana
|
OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,211 Likes: 9 |
DF,
And where do to you live? I know, I know, humid, hot climate. But, my shop has central air and heat. These loads have spent their entire lives in a controlled climate atmosphere, not swealtering away under a hot Louisiana sun... Pampered but still corroding away. Actually the powder looks and smells pretty good, just affected where you see the corrosion. But, you know I'd have to light one off. It sounded different, not the full, deep throated 45-70 sound you'd expect. DF.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,211 Likes: 9
Campfire 'Bwana
|
OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,211 Likes: 9 |
DF, I don't thibk the powdwr is responsible for the corrosion. The area looks like it was resting against something that held moisture. Leather perhaps? Or stored in an area that gets damp. Stored in a plastic ctg box, nothing damp. DF
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,324
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,324 |
Happened to me with Vit 133 in .222 and .223 cases. Also had a 2# bottle go bad, it had been opened, used and put away, when opened several years later, brown cloud came out. Opened another that had been opened several years prior it seemed ok, loaded some .222 and got squibs and alot of un-burned powder. Emailed them, guy calls me the next day we discussed it in length on the phone, short of it he/they had never heard of the powder corroding cases or going bad, insinuated improper storage. All my powder and primers are stored in the heated and cooled gun room, powder in over head cabinet and primers in a file cabinet on the other end of the room.
I have several other open Vit powders that are 10-12 years old that are just fine.
Have not had a problem with any other powders and most of my powders are 5-30 years old.
jme
arky
Last edited by arky65; 11/17/19.
There is a war on America and America is losing
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,811
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,811 |
Judging by the location of the corrosion, my guess would be a reaction between the lube and the brass. The powder looks good, does it smell new/fresh.?
Old Corps
Semper Fi
FJB
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 8,551
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 8,551 |
arky, could you clarify on that first 2# bottle? Had it ever been opened before, or was that the first time to break the seal when the brown cloud came out?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,211 Likes: 9
Campfire 'Bwana
|
OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,211 Likes: 9 |
IIRC, the bullets are 405 gr. Speer Idaho Territory swaged with dry lube. Maybe the coating reacts with the powder. But only a few are affected. Most of the box looks OK. The ones without corrosion shot pretty well.
DF
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,324
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,324 |
Yes, the 2# bottle in question had been opened years before. I edited the post to answer Gringo's question. My brain and fingers are not always on the same wavelength.
There is a war on America and America is losing
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 8,551
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 8,551 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 5,804 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 5,804 Likes: 2 |
I had seen somewhere on the Internet where some bullets coating would react with powder - I forget the details.
I've had powder go off due to poor storage conditions - exposed to a hot wall repeatedly over many years, but it typically corroded through the case at the mouth and/or the primer - something turned to liquid and went looking for places to seep out of. Your's looks to be corroding at the base of the projectile where powder meets coating.
Last edited by mauserand9mm; 11/17/19.
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,586
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,586 |
I had seen somewhere on the Internet where some bullets coating would react with powder - I forget the details.
I've had powder go off due to poor storage conditions - exposed to a hot wall repeatedly over many years, but it typically corroded through the case at the mouth and/or the primer. Your's looks to be corroding at the base of the projectile where powder meets coating. Yes, the possibilities include breakdown products from a deteriorating propellant (which typically include nitric acid) collecting there near the base of the bullet because of the direction the rounds face in storage, and attacking preferentially in the crevice. It doesn't look like an external cause.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,211 Likes: 9
Campfire 'Bwana
|
OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,211 Likes: 9 |
I had seen somewhere on the Internet where some bullets coating would react with powder - I forget the details.
I've had powder go off due to poor storage conditions - exposed to a hot wall repeatedly over many years, but it typically corroded through the case at the mouth and/or the primer. Your's looks to be corroding at the base of the projectile where powder meets coating. Yes, the possibilities include breakdown products from a deteriorating propellant (which typically include nitric acid) collecting there near the base of the bullet because of the direction the rounds face in storage, and attacking preferentially in the crevice. It doesn't look like an external cause. That makes sense. I'm not sure about the coating on those bullets. I don't see MidwayUSA still listing them, not sure Speer still makes them. I didn't smell any acidic aroma, in fact the powder I pulled from a corroded case still smells like it should. There was none of that brown dust you see and smell when powder goes bad. For sure you can detect the nitric acid smell when that happens. This is different, just corrosion where you see it, the rest of the powder doesn't look affected. The fired round that sounded less than full power probably had more powder deterioration than the one I pulled. DF.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 8,551
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 8,551 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,211 Likes: 9
Campfire 'Bwana
|
OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,211 Likes: 9 |
I've had vintage powders go bad with brown acidic smelling dust and fumes like your second link. Just never had any do the corrosion trick like this.
DF
|
|
|
|
649 members (06hunter59, 12344mag, 16gage, 10gaugemag, 160user, 12savage, 60 invisible),
2,898
guests, and
1,318
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,193,643
Posts18,512,351
Members74,010
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|