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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,960
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,960 |
Another interesting aspect about the Gren is the low SAAMI pressure spec of only 52K psi.
With a long sleek bullet, like the 129gr LRAB, it would mimic the effects of the longer throat of the 5.56/.223Wylde vs the .223. I commonly load the Wylde to 60K psi. With 748, that gets me to 2600fps in a 22" barrel, and 100% fill.
At my altitude, that keeps your velocity at 2k all the way out to 500 yards, and still above 1450fps at 1000 yards.
129gr bullet at 2600 out of a standard AR frame.....hmmmm, that could be interesting.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 14,687
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 14,687 |
I've noticed that very slow bullets don't "cut" through bone like higher velocity bullets. It seems like they break off bone, often in larger chucks than you expect and you end up with some pretty nasty secondary missiles anyway. The crushing and cutting can be pretty impressive with slow, black powder velocity projectiles.
Politics is War by Other Means
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,050
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,050 |
Some of those black powder cartridge shooters are pretty amazing. Their standard course of fire goes out to 500 yards. Just don't tell DLA, he doesn't think you can shoot that far with black powder. Back in 1874 Billy Dixon Killed a Comanche at over 1500 yards with a black powder buffalo rifle. No telling what he could of accomplished with a Grendel.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,302
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,302 |
Another interesting aspect about the Gren is the low SAAMI pressure spec of only 52K psi.
With a long sleek bullet, like the 129gr LRAB, it would mimic the effects of the longer throat of the 5.56/.223Wylde vs the .223. I commonly load the Wylde to 60K psi. With 748, that gets me to 2600fps in a 22" barrel, and 100% fill.
At my altitude, that keeps your velocity at 2k all the way out to 500 yards, and still above 1450fps at 1000 yards.
129gr bullet at 2600 out of a standard AR frame.....hmmmm, that could be interesting. That’s my plan. Just got a 20” PSA upper and for this year I’m using the 123 ELD Hornady ammo, but once I get some time I wanna crunch up some 129’s cause if exactly what you mentioned. I’ll take my chances with the Grendel cause I know it really isn’t a chance. 
Semper Fi
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,960
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,960 |
Another interesting aspect about the Gren is the low SAAMI pressure spec of only 52K psi.
With a long sleek bullet, like the 129gr LRAB, it would mimic the effects of the longer throat of the 5.56/.223Wylde vs the .223. I commonly load the Wylde to 60K psi. With 748, that gets me to 2600fps in a 22" barrel, and 100% fill.
At my altitude, that keeps your velocity at 2k all the way out to 500 yards, and still above 1450fps at 1000 yards.
129gr bullet at 2600 out of a standard AR frame.....hmmmm, that could be interesting. That’s my plan. Just got a 20” PSA upper and for this year I’m using the 123 ELD Hornady ammo, but once I get some time I wanna crunch up some 129’s cause if exactly what you mentioned. I’ll take my chances with the Grendel cause I know it really isn’t a chance. Beretzs, Here's what the quick load for you 20" barrel looks like with the 129gr LRAB:
Cartridge : 6.5 Grendel (SAAMI)
Bullet : .264, 129, Nosler AccuBond LR 58943
Useable Case Capaci: 29.619 grain H2O = 1.923 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder : Winchester 748
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.786% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-17.9 78 23.00 2028 1178 29952 6351 92.0 1.427
-16.1 80 23.50 2071 1228 31682 6515 92.9 1.394
-14.3 82 24.00 2113 1279 33512 6674 93.8 1.363
-12.5 83 24.50 2156 1332 35455 6827 94.7 1.332
-10.7 85 25.00 2199 1386 37513 6974 95.5 1.301
-08.9 87 25.50 2242 1440 39684 7114 96.2 1.267
-07.1 88 26.00 2285 1496 42014 7246 96.9 1.235
-05.4 90 26.50 2328 1552 44474 7371 97.5 1.204 ! Near Maximum !
-03.6 92 27.00 2370 1610 47089 7488 98.0 1.173 ! Near Maximum !
-01.8 94 27.50 2413 1668 49869 7596 98.5 1.144 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 95 28.00 2455 1727 52828 7695 98.9 1.115 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.8 97 28.50 2498 1787 55979 7785 99.3 1.088 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.6 99 29.00 2540 1847 59341 7865 99.5 1.061 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.4 100 29.50 2582 1909 62926 7935 99.8 1.035 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+07.1 102 30.00 2623 1971 66757 7995 99.9 1.010 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.9 104 30.50 2665 2034 70856 8043 100.0 0.986 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
And here it is with the 100gr NBT:
Cartridge : 6.5 Grendel (SAAMI)
Bullet : .264, 100, Nosler BalTip 26100
Useable Case Capaci: 32.965 grain H2O = 2.140 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder : Winchester 748
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.562% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-15.6 83 27.00 2352 1228 31098 7116 88.8 1.242
-14.1 84 27.50 2397 1275 32692 7287 89.8 1.217
-12.5 86 28.00 2442 1324 34392 7454 90.7 1.193
-10.9 87 28.50 2486 1373 36176 7617 91.7 1.169
-09.4 89 29.00 2532 1423 38058 7774 92.5 1.143
-07.8 90 29.50 2577 1474 40046 7926 93.4 1.116
-06.2 92 30.00 2622 1526 42146 8073 94.2 1.090
-04.7 93 30.50 2667 1580 44365 8213 94.9 1.065 ! Near Maximum !
-03.1 95 31.00 2712 1634 46708 8347 95.6 1.040 ! Near Maximum !
-01.6 96 31.50 2758 1689 49198 8474 96.3 1.016 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 98 32.00 2803 1745 51829 8593 96.9 0.993 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.6 99 32.50 2848 1801 54620 8705 97.4 0.970 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.1 101 33.00 2894 1859 57579 8808 97.9 0.948 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.7 102 33.50 2939 1918 60722 8903 98.4 0.927 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.2 104 34.00 2984 1977 64062 8989 98.8 0.906 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+07.8 106 34.50 3029 2037 67617 9066 99.1 0.885 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,415
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,415 |
Another interesting aspect about the Gren is the low SAAMI pressure spec of only 52K psi.
With a long sleek bullet, like the 129gr LRAB, it would mimic the effects of the longer throat of the 5.56/.223Wylde vs the .223. I commonly load the Wylde to 60K psi. With 748, that gets me to 2600fps in a 22" barrel, and 100% fill.
At my altitude, that keeps your velocity at 2k all the way out to 500 yards, and still above 1450fps at 1000 yards.
129gr bullet at 2600 out of a standard AR frame.....hmmmm, that could be interesting. That’s my plan. Just got a 20” PSA upper and for this year I’m using the 123 ELD Hornady ammo, but once I get some time I wanna crunch up some 129’s cause if exactly what you mentioned. I’ll take my chances with the Grendel cause I know it really isn’t a chance. I'm diving in with the 129 LRAB too.... At 3800"+ it might work well enough I can put the big cannon Creedmeister away..
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!"
--- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,302
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,302 |
Another interesting aspect about the Gren is the low SAAMI pressure spec of only 52K psi.
With a long sleek bullet, like the 129gr LRAB, it would mimic the effects of the longer throat of the 5.56/.223Wylde vs the .223. I commonly load the Wylde to 60K psi. With 748, that gets me to 2600fps in a 22" barrel, and 100% fill.
At my altitude, that keeps your velocity at 2k all the way out to 500 yards, and still above 1450fps at 1000 yards.
129gr bullet at 2600 out of a standard AR frame.....hmmmm, that could be interesting. That’s my plan. Just got a 20” PSA upper and for this year I’m using the 123 ELD Hornady ammo, but once I get some time I wanna crunch up some 129’s cause if exactly what you mentioned. I’ll take my chances with the Grendel cause I know it really isn’t a chance. Beretzs, Here's what the quick load for you 20" barrel looks like with the 129gr LRAB:
Cartridge : 6.5 Grendel (SAAMI)
Bullet : .264, 129, Nosler AccuBond LR 58943
Useable Case Capaci: 29.619 grain H2O = 1.923 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder : Winchester 748
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.786% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-17.9 78 23.00 2028 1178 29952 6351 92.0 1.427
-16.1 80 23.50 2071 1228 31682 6515 92.9 1.394
-14.3 82 24.00 2113 1279 33512 6674 93.8 1.363
-12.5 83 24.50 2156 1332 35455 6827 94.7 1.332
-10.7 85 25.00 2199 1386 37513 6974 95.5 1.301
-08.9 87 25.50 2242 1440 39684 7114 96.2 1.267
-07.1 88 26.00 2285 1496 42014 7246 96.9 1.235
-05.4 90 26.50 2328 1552 44474 7371 97.5 1.204 ! Near Maximum !
-03.6 92 27.00 2370 1610 47089 7488 98.0 1.173 ! Near Maximum !
-01.8 94 27.50 2413 1668 49869 7596 98.5 1.144 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 95 28.00 2455 1727 52828 7695 98.9 1.115 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.8 97 28.50 2498 1787 55979 7785 99.3 1.088 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.6 99 29.00 2540 1847 59341 7865 99.5 1.061 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.4 100 29.50 2582 1909 62926 7935 99.8 1.035 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+07.1 102 30.00 2623 1971 66757 7995 99.9 1.010 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.9 104 30.50 2665 2034 70856 8043 100.0 0.986 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
And here it is with the 100gr NBT:
Cartridge : 6.5 Grendel (SAAMI)
Bullet : .264, 100, Nosler BalTip 26100
Useable Case Capaci: 32.965 grain H2O = 2.140 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder : Winchester 748
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.562% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-15.6 83 27.00 2352 1228 31098 7116 88.8 1.242
-14.1 84 27.50 2397 1275 32692 7287 89.8 1.217
-12.5 86 28.00 2442 1324 34392 7454 90.7 1.193
-10.9 87 28.50 2486 1373 36176 7617 91.7 1.169
-09.4 89 29.00 2532 1423 38058 7774 92.5 1.143
-07.8 90 29.50 2577 1474 40046 7926 93.4 1.116
-06.2 92 30.00 2622 1526 42146 8073 94.2 1.090
-04.7 93 30.50 2667 1580 44365 8213 94.9 1.065 ! Near Maximum !
-03.1 95 31.00 2712 1634 46708 8347 95.6 1.040 ! Near Maximum !
-01.6 96 31.50 2758 1689 49198 8474 96.3 1.016 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 98 32.00 2803 1745 51829 8593 96.9 0.993 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.6 99 32.50 2848 1801 54620 8705 97.4 0.970 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.1 101 33.00 2894 1859 57579 8808 97.9 0.948 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.7 102 33.50 2939 1918 60722 8903 98.4 0.927 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.2 104 34.00 2984 1977 64062 8989 98.8 0.906 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+07.8 106 34.50 3029 2037 67617 9066 99.1 0.885 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
That’d work okay for me. 129’s at 2400 would be a sweet combo in my book.
Semper Fi
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,373
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,373 |
By your own words the grendel bullet opens to .40 .
I have shot many head of game with a 45-70 . For your edification that bullet is.460 out of my molds. Weight anywhere from 290 g. To 500g.
Cast hard, and moving anywhere from 1100 to 1800 fps at the muzzle.
.460 hole going in and .460 hole coming out.
Take a half inch hose and see what kind of stream it produces.
If your frangible perfect bullet blows up on entry you lose.
The 6.5 bullet has a history of being a fine penetrator. I killed many deer in my youth with a 6.5 carcano with some ranging to 350 yards.
Don't have a Grendel but wouldn't hesitate using one at the same distance if I could still see that far😁
In closing I just have to say...... DLA is a poor Hunter past 200 yards Ok Mr. Nuclear Rocket Surgeon, how long is the wound channel neck with a 45-70? Especially a WFN bullet? Right - ZERO. The 45-70 cannot be made to crush less than a 1/2" hole all the way through. But a 6.5mm is 25% of the frontal area of the 45-70 (33.2mm vs 126.7mm). The problem isn't lack of penetration, the problem is the lack of tissue damage due to lack of velocity.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,960
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,960 |
...., the problem is the lack of tissue damage due to lack of velocity. We've already demonstrated the absurdity of this claim. Reading comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong suit. Now go play with your Barbie Dolls, grown up are talking.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,235
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,235 |
Too many people read ballistic tables and energy figures but don't understand killing mechanisms.
You realize that's more true of yourself than anyone else in this thread, right? What makes you think you have an opinion of any value on this? Did you attend a bad public school? Struggling with reading comprehension? Butt-hurt because you're too stupid to defend the Grendel against the onslaught of truth?LMAO!!  I guess Kel-Tec doesn't make a 6.5 Grendel or we'd be hearing none of this nonsense.
Let's Go Brandon! FJB
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755 |
Too many people read ballistic tables and energy figures but don't understand killing mechanisms.
You realize that's more true of yourself than anyone else in this thread, right? What makes you think you have an opinion of any value on this? Did you attend a bad public school? Struggling with reading comprehension? Butt-hurt because you're too stupid to defend the Grendel against the onslaught of truth?LMAO!! I guess Kel-Tec doesn't make a 6.5 Grendel or we'd be hearing none of this nonsense. Hahahaha! Truth!
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,558
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,558 |
It just doesn't have the velocity to make bullets work. Great for punching paper but thats about it. Reply to this is simple - B.S. Op has little or dare I say no real world experience with the Grendel. Now for 12" barrel length and a non hunting bullet the OP's statement may hold some water. A number of good hunting bullets would do very well out to over 350 yards in the right hands. One of my favorites is the 129 GR SP over Lever evolution. this is yielding 2700ish FPSat the muzzle from a 24" barrel.
love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control
& Proverbs 21:19
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,558
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,558 |
To be fair I may not know what I am talking about either, as I have yet to need to take a shot over 100 yards on game with my 6.5 Grendel.
love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control
& Proverbs 21:19
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755 |
Another interesting aspect about the Gren is the low SAAMI pressure spec of only 52K psi.
With a long sleek bullet, like the 129gr LRAB, it would mimic the effects of the longer throat of the 5.56/.223Wylde vs the .223. I commonly load the Wylde to 60K psi. With 748, that gets me to 2600fps in a 22" barrel, and 100% fill.
At my altitude, that keeps your velocity at 2k all the way out to 500 yards, and still above 1450fps at 1000 yards.
129gr bullet at 2600 out of a standard AR frame.....hmmmm, that could be interesting. I hear what you're putting down, but oddly enough at least in my Grendel, the ABLR tops out a little slower than I expected compared to some other bullets. Part of that is probably due to the long nose and deeper seated base to stay within mag constraints (2.300" with ASC mags). I'm able to push a 140gr SGK to about the same velocity as the ABLR (a little under 2250 fps for both), based on case life with loads for both. That's not exact of course, but it's using the same brass, powder, and rifle for both loads. However, at 2,240 fps for my 129 ABLR accuracy load, it's plenty adequate for as far out as I care to shoot. Note that this is similar muzzle velocity to a lot of older "deer gun" cartridges like the 30/30 and 35 Remington, which have killed tons of deer over the years, but that ABLR is a modern bullet design that extends the range and performance envelope significantly. I will say that when I used this bullet on deer last fall, it was devastating. The exit wounds were larger than my fist, with chunks (not just spray) of lungs and other tissue on the brush around the deer. Since impact velocity would have been somewhere between 1800 and 2000 fps, the 130gr AB probably would have worked just as well but the ABLR gives a wider range of performance in this low velocity round.
Last edited by Yondering; 11/26/19.
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,111
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,111 |
I remember watching a tv show that was interviewing a sniper that had served in Vietnam. He was sharing a story about the VC using a water buffalo as concealment as they walked between rice paddies. He said the buff had too many legs. So he shoots the buffalo. If I recall he said it was 900 yards.
Now his 308 and load wouldn’t be considered a buffalo round at any distance, much less 900 yards but it did the trick.
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,517
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,517 |
Waiting on a new Grendel barrel to get here, but loading test rounds with 123 gr A max's, 100, and 120 gr Ballistic tips, and 123 gr sst's. All set at 2.250. ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/NyZ82KpC/received-464211224447593.jpg)
Last edited by splattermatic; 11/27/19.
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,069
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,069 |
As they say, a picture equals a 1,000 words...One of my sons with a Larue 6.5 Grendel and Hornady 123grain SSTs. ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/ONgr4pdl.jpg)
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Posts: 57,477
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,477 |
Yeah but probably only 199.9 yards... LMAO
Slow kills. My civil war musket shoots some kind of round ball but I only run about 60 of FFg. Never had an issue with it either.
DLA needs to get real life experience, not paper.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,300
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,300 |
Sometimes I think DLA is a special person other times I think he just wants attention, and then other times I think he is someone’s sock puppet. Then I go back to his love of Keltec and the special person moniker fits better. He has nothing but personal attacks when he defends his position, so he is probably a democrat as well. I would be delighted if he would post a picture of something he has shot, or some gun he owns.
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,944
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,944 |
A chunk of lead from a Sharps moving at subsonic speed will kill a person (Indian) in Mr. Dixon did but now your comparing apples to oranges! I still wouldn't want to be shot with a Grr at that distance regardless! Just saw a video of a guy shooting the lowly 22lr at ballistics gel at 300yds and it was still penetrating 11+ inches at that distance, no expansion but still impressive for a 22.
MAGA! This is the way!
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