It's an absolute shame how this ended. As far as too many cope per perps as has been addressed by someone here, only a fool engages in a fair gunfight. If you find yourself in a fair gunfight, you better be in a total defense mode. When the UPS van ran in to stopped traffic, than the bandits got out with what may have sounded with full auto fire rifles behind the driver and shot the driver, it was clear the only way this was going to end was in their deaths. They had already made up their minds, they weren't going to be taken alive. If by chance they had gotten away, this would have been repeated again. Their thought process being they got away once already, they're too smart to be caught. Damn shame about the innocent bystanders. Nothing can make that right. I don't see any good ending with people like this and am surprised more people weren't killed.
On of the many problems today is that there will be anti LE finding lots of fault
There will be pro LE explaining things
Both have an agenda and see it from thier side Than there will be a study and when the,results come out the sides will find fault,with the study and cry cover up or BS scape goat
The Lawyers will look for a huge pay day
And in the end a brother sister husband wife friend etc will still be,innocently slaughtered
And many LE and civilians caught in this will be traumatised and never sleep well
Because of a couple azz bags with nothing to loose
Random acts of violence are just horrible some even worse than others
Hank
Last edited by boatboy; 12/06/19.
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Good thing they didnt hijack a full school bus and park in the middle of a parade.......
It's entirely possible that the cops would have used a different set of tactics in that situation. Crazy, I know.
so now you're saying the police would have backed off and not chased the criminals into rush hour traffic if it was a hostage situation with school kids? There was an alternative option in overtaking the criminals?
you have checkmated PB.
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
The cops were NOT using human shields. They were using the vehicles as cover.
If cops in a gunfight ever hid behind a baby in a pram , you would argue the 'technicality' they didn't hide behind a child ..they only took cover behind a pram.
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
You really haven't thought this through have you? The truck came to a stop in heavy traffic. The robbers started shooting indiscriminately. Drivers were stuck with nowhere to go. ...
LE could have swarmed/surrounded the UPS struck and brought it to a STOP with its large armada of SUVs-/patrol vehicles on a more open stretch of road well before that traffic jam,...instead, they followed at a safe distance and waited for a traffic jam full of captive innocents to engage in an all- hell- break- loose gun battle.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
2 blacks created the situation. They're responsible for everybody that died.
2 didindonuffins.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
Miami police and other officers appear to have used surrounding bystanders as "human shields" when they responded to the the hijacked UPS truck following an armed heist of a jewelry store Thursday. After suspects led police on a two-county rush-hour chase through Miami which ended in a hail of gunfire in the middle of crowded traffic on Miramar Parkway and Flamingo Road, hundreds of police bullets from 19 officers firing on the truck brought it to an end.
As we reported earlier, four people have been confirmed dead, including the robbers and the UPS driver, since identified as 27-year-old Frank Ordonez, who unluckily had been taken hostage on a day he was reportedly filling in for another driver. Some of his own family members are blaming the "trigger happy" Florida police for killing him in their overeagerness to stop the criminals.
An investigation is underway which will also focus on the other innocent bystander that died — an unidentified person shot while trapped at the intersection in one of the many surrounding vehicles.
A number of online commentators noted the dramatic scene of police immediately rushing into stalled traffic on foot and emptying their weapons in return fire appeared something more from a Hollywood action movie.
Viral video shows the UPS truck stopped amid heavy traffic with bystanders in their vehicles on either side. But the police response is now under criticism given that instead of hanging back and waiting for fewer civilians to be in the line of fire, or even establishing contact through a police negotiator, officers rushed the UPS truck in a blaze of bullets.
Police had the other option of backing off the easily identifiable and trackable large brown UPS truck in order to engage with it in a more open area.
"To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."-- Thomas Jefferson
The fbi and local leo will cater the outcome to towards it being some magical perps' bullets that killed the innocents.
Nothing the fbi has their hand in has any more credibility. NONE, ZERO.
The last straw would be if Lon Horiuchi were there on the scene as an undercover detective and he was in the front row putting mag dumps on the UPS driver....
"To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."-- Thomas Jefferson
That totally sucks for the UPS driver. Poor bastard just trying to earn a living has to endure the carjacking and then get killed while thinking he was free. prayers for the innocent victims. rot in hell for the perps.
It was his first on the job!!
“There is no limit to the amount of good you can do if you don’t care who gets credit.” R. Reagan
The police absolutely used the cars on the freeway as shields, even though there were people in them. Women and children. Those cops were COWARDS and I hope they rot in hell.
"To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."-- Thomas Jefferson
Here is a blip from a African American vloger where he offers his commentary as he flips through the news post on this incident..His point of view may surprise some...
If a guy referring to white folks as "crackers" bothers you, well..watch anyway:-)
You might want to jump to around the five minute mark to start....
When September 11 went down in NYC those firefighters ran into the burning buildings knowing they might not get out. They are hero’s for doing so
There are not hero’s on the cops side save some of the cops out in the open on the passengers side of the truck. I expect the cops to act in the best interest of the population. That means getting in the line of fire if needed to protect bystanders. If a police officer dies protecting bystanders he is a hero in my mind. Hiding behind occupied cars is just Cowardly.
You sign up to be a cop. You sign up for the risk period. no excuses if you can’t deal with it. Turn in your badge
Still early to make definitive judgments on a lot of this discussed IMO. A bad deal, I blame the two perps 100% although I do not like the use of occupied vehicles for cover by some of the LEOs.
The guy who but the bullet hole on the very top edge of the UPS truck ought to spend a bit more time at the range before opening fire in a public setting.
a black guy saying things like that doesn't fit the liberal narrative.
Geno
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men. In it is contentment In it is death and all you seek (Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
Question: should the cops have let the BGs and hostage go unimpeded and free of pursuit in hope of a better result? If so explain your reasoning and provide the training and experience that supports your conclusions.
Answer: Yes
Explanation: Replace the UPS employee with a LEO as the hostage.
My Training: Common Sense.
My Experience: Decades of life experiences to gain Common Sense.
If the hostage would've been a LEO, that whole chase would NOT have been handled as it did, and the LEO's on scene would not have committed involuntary manslaughter, like they did on the UPS driver.
Now, you are in Checkmate with the above scenario...deal with it.
P.S. Sure is funny how not one single LEO on this thread touched my earlier post concerning this matter. Maybe it was because it was 100% truthful and directly over the target…Yeah, thought so.