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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,306
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,306 |
Well, what's your take on this?
Screw you! I'm voting for Trump again!
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the 24HCF.
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,024
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,024 |
A good barrel is not going to "walk" that much. If a barrel does walk a lot on you, it is likely "stressed " from the machining process. Any amount of uneven pressure exerted on the barrel, as it warms up from shooting, will also cause your poi to wander.
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,586
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,586 |
There are potentially a couple of causes of walking. Commonly, it is a barrel not well stress-relieved. Processes like rotary forging and button rifling for example, may result in quite high residual stresses and, if not properly stress relieved, the heating of the barrel from firing a few rounds can see it move.
Another one is where the way the rifle is bedded or fitted up results in movement due to thermal expansion. As you know, steel expands as it gets hot, and if that expansion is constrained on one side, such as by a barrel screw or other feature pressing against the barrel on one side, that can cause walking. Perhaps the most extreme example of this that I've seen is in teh case of combinations, drillings and the like, where the rifle barrel is soldered to another barrel, and as the rifle barrel heats up it expands on the side away from the joint, but on the side where the joint is it has the combined effects of a heat sink and the rigid joint preventing movement.
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,468
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,468 |
They can and will. Depends on the barrel and the bedding. Some will be worse than others, for the reasons mentioned above. For a hunting rifle the first cold bore shot is the money maker.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,140
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,140 |
Well, what's your take on this? They certainly can....
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69 Pro-Constitution. LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651 |
My first bolt ws a Ruger M77 7mm RM. When I tried to zero it the POI kept moving up and to the left at 11 o'clock.
That was 1982. Floated the barrel and have not had a problem since. And since then all my bolt rifles get the barrel floated if they don't come that way. They don't walk either, but i don't shoot any until they are uncomfortably hot. Cooler barrels result in longer barrel life.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 19
New Member
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New Member
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 19 |
I have one rifle that tends to walk as it heats up .... I say tend to but really it’s basically guaranteed.
It’s a full length forend and figured wood so the grain is not straight and the forend always contacts the barrel. I’ve tried to correct it a few times to no avail.
On the upside. The walking is pretty predictable if you take quick follow up shots, and if you let the barrel cool it doesn’t walk.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,083
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,083 |
Relieving hidden stresses in barrel steel in the course of machining same is a very real phenomenon. I experimented once with a pristine military Mauser barrel. It was scary accurate in its original configuration- steps and all. I carefully set it up in a 4-jaw chuck, tailstock live center carefully centered and supporting the muzzle end. On slow speed I painstakingly turned the barrel into a svelte taper, eradicating the steps. A work of art when done. Subsequent shooting proved the first shot would go dead nuts where the crosshairs pointed. Second, third, fourth, fifth shots would steadily walk up and to the right with the fifth landing about 8" from the first, every time. I messed with the bedding every which way from Wednesday and nothing helped. Stress relief is a bitch.
Thorough cooling between shots would yield MOA groups but I couldn't live with knowing it's foible, so away it went. I did kill a couple deer with it.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,160
Campfire Savant
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Campfire Savant
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,160 |
I have some that do, some that don’t.
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 220
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 220 |
I’ve had a 700 LTR in 6.8 spc in the back of the safe longer than I should have because it would fairly predictably walk them down and left. Initially a 6x42 Leupold was blamed and found to have been bad, but I’ve never fooled with it since. On the list for this winter.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 953
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 953 |
My father's 99C in 308 does faster and farther than any rifle I've ever seen. Forgot multi shot groups. And if you want to sight in a new scope or work up a hand load, you better have a lot of time on your hands.
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Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 3,723
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 3,723 |
How many rounds before you feel they will walk, midrange say .243?
Osky
A woman's heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth and I can find no sign on it.
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,024
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,024 |
How many rounds before you feel they will walk, midrange say .243?
Osky You should go back and read peoples posts. You'll see that every barrel is different. Every rifle is different. There are ways to help prevent "walking" of your shots and POI shift. Go back at the beginning and read the posts. It is full of some good insight..
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 665
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 665 |
How many rounds before you feel they will walk, midrange say .243?
Osky You should go back and read peoples posts. You'll see that every barrel is different. Every rifle is different. There are ways to help prevent "walking" of your shots and POI shift. Go back at the beginning and read the posts. It is full of some good insight.. Why, you don't seem to read and comprehend many?
'If you say the parent you were most afraid when you were a kid was your dad, you grew up in the city.'
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,459
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,459 |
Years ago, I built a 7x57, on a Turk Mauser. I did not buy a premium barrel. I wanted to put one together on the "cheap". So, I bought a Green Mountain bbl from Midway, that was threaded and short chambered. It was on sale for $69.99.
I had the receiver heat treated, cut off the bolt handle and put on a new one. Then I sent it to a guy who Cryo treated it. I put that into an ambi-thumbhole MPI stock I had in my shop, and took it to the range.
Now, it wasn't as cheap as I wanted it to be, but damn! It shoots just as well, or better than any other rifle than I've built since, and with a $70 barrel!
That said, every rifle I own is bedded and free floated. But, if it doesn't shoot, and I'm keeping it, it gets cryo'd.
I need to find a new shop to do it, as my guy retired recently.
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Joined: Jul 2012
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2012
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Did you try that barrel before cryogenic treatment? Because from a metallurgical point of view cryogenic treatment of rifle barrels is really just snake oil.
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 240
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 240 |
If a hot barrel “walks” in a properly assembled and bedded rifle, it’s going in the trash. Time for a rebarrel.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,505
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2005
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 13,136
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 13,136 |
Boy howdy, I had a Weatherby Ultra-lightweight in .30-06, pencil thin barrel. It didn’t walk, it ran! Almost like shooting a single shot, make the first one count.
Obey lawful commands. Video interactions. Hold bad cops accountable. Problem solved.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Member #547 Join date 3/09/2001
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Joined: Dec 2019
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Thank you BSA....... Merry Christmas.
Osky
A woman's heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth and I can find no sign on it.
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 843
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 843 |
I've never owned a rifle with a custom barrel, and all of my rifles walk as they heat up. That includes Howas, Weatherbys, and Tikkas.
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 799
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 799 |
I used to hunt with a guy that had a Remington 700 in 243. He was often a guest on our huge company deer lease. He missed a lot. Well, we took his rifle over to the range to check the sights. First round was Ok (which didn’t explain why he missed so much), but any following rounds went sharply up and to the right. We floated the barrel, but that didn’t help at all. His third shot would be 4 to 6 inches high and right. I guess he sold it. I would have.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,171
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,171 |
While I have had rifles which would string shots (usually vertically), I never had a barrel which would walk as it heated. I also have never shot one which walked as it heated up except when it was a function of bedding. This includes some barrels which had to be straightened multiple times during the contouring process. I had one rifle (a BRNO ZKK 600 in 30/06) which I had bedded full length. If I sat down and fired five shots, it would produce a decent group (1 to 1 1/2 moa). If I then walked up to the 100 yard board and put up a new target, then sat down and fired another group, the first shot would hit six inches high. Successive shots would hit progressively lower until, after four shots or so, the rifle would group at the original point of impact. If I then let the barrel cool completely, it would group at the original POI. Free floating the barrel cured this. I theorized that the barrel was warmer on the bottom and, hence, longer so it was bowed upward. Can't swear that was the case but it seemed to be. GD
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