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Re: Barnes bullet... are you completely sold? [Re: T_Inman] #14362975 12/11/19
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Originally Posted by T_Inman

I am not making any judgments concerning Barnes, because I've had some good results with them, but have had enough bad experiences to give me pause.
80 yards. Impact velocity roughly 2800 FPS. Only reason I recovered the animal was because I put a second bullet into him. This was from a deer, not an elk so please don't chastise me, but you know how many words a picture is worth...
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Hopefully I've just had abnormal luck or bad lots of bullets from Barnes, but I've found that sometimes they work awesome, sometimes they don't.


Might be just the lighting in the pic, but, the bullet looks "bent" and would've been wobbling upon impact.


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Re: Barnes bullet... are you completely sold? [Re: RMerta] #14363022 12/11/19
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It is indeed bent....but since it had started to expand normally as evidenced by the tip, I must believe it initially hit the critter going straight.

Just a guess though.



Re: Barnes bullet... are you completely sold? [Re: RMerta] #14363056 12/11/19
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Sapling or brush deflection?

Re: Barnes bullet... are you completely sold? [Re: RMerta] #14363278 12/11/19
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Possibly, but I do not believe so.
If my memory serves, it was a clear shot....but my heart was pounding as it was a pretty big buck.



Re: Barnes bullet... are you completely sold? [Re: huntinaz] #14363373 12/11/19
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Originally Posted by huntinaz
I’m completely sold on Barnes bullets for elk. For elk I want penetration and that’s where Barnes shines. I love Accubonds too but for elk I think Barnes are the best.


Same here. While I have seen a 100 TSX from a 257 Wby , tilt when it hit and end up going sideways through the animal. this was about 30yds and it was a Black Hawaiian Ram. This can happen with any long for caliber, fast bullet. They do indeed "yaw" ( a less exaggerated one, but similar to a Tomahawk missile at launch) With elk, using any rifle, its best to "shoot all the wiggle out of them", then, when you walk up to them, take out your pocket knife and jump on him, stabbing for all you are worth! Then, just maybe then, it will be dead. (Just kidding, but keep shooting until they are down.) smile

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Re: Barnes bullet... are you completely sold? [Re: horse1] #14363933 12/12/19
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Originally Posted by horse1
Originally Posted by T_Inman

I am not making any judgments concerning Barnes, because I've had some good results with them, but have had enough bad experiences to give me pause.
80 yards. Impact velocity roughly 2800 FPS. Only reason I recovered the animal was because I put a second bullet into him. This was from a deer, not an elk so please don't chastise me, but you know how many words a picture is worth...
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Hopefully I've just had abnormal luck or bad lots of bullets from Barnes, but I've found that sometimes they work awesome, sometimes they don't.


Might be just the lighting in the pic, but, the bullet looks "bent" and would've been wobbling upon impact.


A friend of mine recovered a TTSX from an elk that looked much better than that one. Like you could've put the tip back on and loaded it again. 168 grain out of a .308, so, a little slow. He hit the elk in the heart, so no secnd shot needed.



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Re: Barnes bullet... are you completely sold? [Re: T_Inman] #14363959 12/12/19
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Originally Posted by T_Inman

I am not making any judgments concerning Barnes, because I've had some good results with them, but have had enough bad experiences to give me pause.
80 yards. Impact velocity roughly 2800 FPS. Only reason I recovered the animal was because I put a second bullet into him. This was from a deer, not an elk so please don't chastise me, but you know how many words a picture is worth...
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Hopefully I've just had abnormal luck or bad lots of bullets from Barnes, but I've found that sometimes they work awesome, sometimes they don't.



I believe this is the same experience I had although I never recovered the bullet. 338RUM 225TSX 3200 FPS, shot a Bull elk at 111 yards 338 pencil hole in, pencil hole out, just like a solid. Luckily it was through vitals. The Elk ran a quarter mile before it dropped.

Last edited by peeshooter; 12/12/19.

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Re: Barnes bullet... are you completely sold? [Re: WAM] #14364192 12/12/19
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Originally Posted by WAM
^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^

Hunting buds use the 168 TTSX in their 300 RUM and 30-378 with great results.

My 26 Nosler really tears up meat, 120 TTSX or E-Tip (don't see much difference), at 3,450 fps. Can go faster, but 3,450 is for best groups.

So, seems to me, if you push a mono fast enough it really comes to life.

I know, I know, they also work at slower speeds, but they really perform at high velocity.

I like more conventional bullets at more conventional speeds....

For example, at 2,800 fps, I'd go with a more expansive bullet on local WT's, especially chest shooting them. Busting shoulders puts them down quicker, but tears up too much meat.

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Re: Barnes bullet... are you completely sold? [Re: RMerta] #14364305 12/12/19
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I have shot north of 130 critters or so with barnes regular tsx not the tipped version. Have used many calibers. 3006, 300wsm, 2506, 270, 257 wby mag, 7 mag, 223, 7x57, 375 H&H, and I have not had a single failure or lost a single animal with shots ranging from 50 to 600 yards. I would say that is statistically relevant. Every since they put the grooves in them and annealed the copper a bit more they have been really accurate out of almost all of my rifles and the fouling has mostly gone away. I also have taken game with accubonds and swift sirocco and they worked well. For standard c and c bullets I have found if a rifle won't shoot the sierra game king it probably won't shoot anything well. YMMV


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Re: Barnes bullet... are you completely sold? [Re: jmp300wsm] #14364353 12/12/19
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Originally Posted by jmp300wsm
I have shot north of 130 critters or so with barnes regular tsx not the tipped version. Have used many calibers. 3006, 300wsm, 2506, 270, 257 wby mag, 7 mag, 223, 7x57, 375 H&H, and I have not had a single failure or lost a single animal with shots ranging from 50 to 600 yards. I would say that is statistically relevant. Every since they put the grooves in them and annealed the copper a bit more they have been really accurate out of almost all of my rifles and the fouling has mostly gone away. I also have taken game with accubonds and swift sirocco and they worked well. For standard c and c bullets I have found if a rifle won't shoot the sierra game king it probably won't shoot anything well. YMMV

Agree with SGK generally being very accurate.

I have a 1/2" load for my 7-08, 140 SGK HPBT over Varget that I'm using right now. Gotta see how it does on WT's.

I'm going to W/U 120 NBT loads after deer season.

I like the accuracy of the monos. Tend to use them in faster rounds.

I like to observe bullet performance vs.velocity, try to match for best effect.

DF

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Re: Barnes bullet... are you completely sold? [Re: RMerta] #14364469 12/12/19
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I am a big believer in Barnes bullets, both TSX and TTSX, for all my big game hunting, from little African antelopes to big African stuff, and most American game in between.

Here is a .375 Ruger, 270 gr. Barnes TSX recovered from a Nilgai bull, taken at a range around 200 yards, animal immediately DRT. Bullet lodged in the hide on the far side of the bull. The problem of judging expansion of these projectiles is that they usually do not stay in the animal, generally penetrating completely. They are accurate in every caliber I use, from .257 to .375, both the TSX and TTSX versions. The last two elk I have killed both fell to Barnes TSX bullets, one a 100 gr. .257 from my Weatherby, the other a 165 gr. from my .300 Wby., both elk at a range of 300 yards. Hard to imagine a better bullet for elk, IMO.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


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Re: Barnes bullet... are you completely sold? [Re: RMerta] #14364536 12/12/19
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I have seen MANY animals killed with Barnes bullets. The key to them working well is impact velocity.

2300 FPS and over, they work perfectly (most times). From 2000 to 2300 impact velocity, they work well. (most times)

Under 2000 FPS on impact they tend to be a bit erratic because expansion is very limited or non-existent, but they can still kill super well because they tumble even when they don't expand. A tumbling bullet can be super deadly, but the down-side to this type of performance is the fact that a tumbling bullet (like a fragmenting bullet) often takes weird paths through the game, and it's not uncommon to hit an animal exactly where you want to and have such bullets turn inside the body and miss what you wanted to hit.

It's the hole that does the killing, and the bullet is the tool we use to make the holes. If the hole turns at odd angles you may kill like lighting, or you may have one turn and go where you didn't aim it.

So I think of Barnes bullets as High Velocity Bullets, (Or as close to mid range bullet.)

Look at the velocity your rifle and cartridge can give you, and look at the BC of the bullet you want to shoot and see the range it is down to 2000 FPS. That is the reliable effective range of that Barnes Bullet from your cartridge and rifle.

I seldom use them just because I have found I like the Nosler Partitions, various bonded bullets, and even cup and core bullets better overall because many of the rifles I love to hunt with are old fashioned and fire their bullets at between 2250 and 2650 from the muzzle, so in many cases the bullets getting down to 2000 FPS is not going to be that many yards of distance from my muzzles. From my 303, 300 Savages, 8X57 and many of my 165 and 180 grain 308 Winchester loads. Bonded, Partition and even good cup and core bullets work better at lower impact velocities for me in most cases. I do use the Barnex TMX at times from the following.
308 Winchester...130 grain. 1 deer. 3 antelope.
270 Winchester 140 grain 1 mule deer. 1 white tail deer.
30-06 150 grain (Pre TSX bullets) 1 elk.
300 H&H 165 grain (Pre TSX bullet) 4 deer. 1 elk.
All the above have left me nothing to complain about at all, on every kill I have made with them.

I have loaded some ammo for my 25-06 with 115 grain Barnes TSX and also some 223s with 62 grain Barnes TSX, but so far I have not killed anything with them. I have seen Antelope and deer both killed with the same load from other's 25-06s and 3 elk killed with that bullet from my daughters and grand-sons 257 Roberts rifles, so I know how well it works, but I personally have not killed anything with them. (yet)

My friend Josh has killed about 15 coyotes and 2 deer with his AR15 in 223 with the 62 grain Barnes. It's worked very well, so I loaded some for myself, but I have not killed some much as a rabbit or prairie dog with one yet. Some day maybe.......

Last edited by szihn; 12/12/19.
Re: Barnes bullet... are you completely sold? [Re: RMerta] #14364699 12/12/19
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I came to the same conclusion as szihn, above, on Barnes bullets probably being great choices as long as you are shooting a high velocity cartridge.

Because my 30-06 is my go-to choice, I choose to load 200 grain partitions at 2,650 FPS, rather than 168 grain ttsx’s at 2,865 FPS.

In all likelihood, I probably am “splitting hairs” on two excellent options for my 06’, but life is full of tough choices!

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Re: Barnes bullet... are you completely sold? [Re: RMerta] #14364771 12/12/19
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recovered both these 180 partitions from a moose few yrs back. I was using a 30-06, BSA know the 06 very well. Shot was less than 200 yrds. These were from the same box/bag. I don't consider the one partition a failure because I had a dead moose on the ground.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Last edited by 79S; 12/12/19.


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.
Re: Barnes bullet... are you completely sold? [Re: RMerta] #14365281 12/12/19
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Shot a buck this year with 180gr TTSX loaded in a 300WM. Hit thd buck in the ribs at 65yds. He just kept eating acorns. Walked 25' grazing, stopped, lifted his head, teetered a little tyen fell over. Exit hole was the same size as the entrance. No b lood anywhere.

Re: Barnes bullet... are you completely sold? [Re: RMerta] #14365388 12/12/19
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I have a 130gr tsx shot out of a 270. I used on a elk, picture perfect expansion. I need to find it take a picture of it.



Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.
Re: Barnes bullet... are you completely sold? [Re: 79S] #14365424 12/12/19
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Originally Posted by 79S
recovered both these 180 partitions from a moose few yrs back. I was using a 30-06, BSA know the 06 very well. Shot was less than 200 yrds. These were from the same box/bag. I don't consider the one partition a failure because I had a dead moose on the ground.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Both of those appear tonhave worked exactly as designed.

Re: Barnes bullet... are you completely sold? [Re: T_Inman] #14365441 12/12/19
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Originally Posted by T_Inman

I am not making any judgments concerning Barnes, because I've had some good results with them, but have had enough bad experiences to give me pause.
80 yards. Impact velocity roughly 2800 FPS. Only reason I recovered the animal was because I put a second bullet into him. This was from a deer, not an elk so please don't chastise me, but you know how many words a picture is worth...
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Hopefully I've just had abnormal luck or bad lots of bullets from Barnes, but I've found that sometimes they work awesome, sometimes they don't.


I have a fair number of TSX/TTSX bullets recovered from trees behind my target that hit the target paper and the plastic sign I use for a backer that look just like that! Some bent, some not. The ones not bent were stuck in the most straight butt first. They make a good case for the bullet tumbling after minimal upset and sort of restabilizing because of the drag of the partial expansion.

My guess is that all it takes to cause the partial expansion is a target backer, juicy weeds, small brush etc. I have seen enough caliber size holes both in and out accompanied by massive internal damage that I put no stock whatsoever in entrance/exit holes. But... I can see the case for a mono hitting butt first and "penciling" through. Additionally, I have seen monos shot into dry sand and dry wood not expand. Moisture seems to be important to good expansion.

Re: Barnes bullet... are you completely sold? [Re: MILES58] #14365767 12/12/19
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Miles,

I have shot a bunch of monolithic bullets in tightly-stacked dry newspaper, my favorite media for testing any bullet for impact on heavy bone. Have yet to have any of them fail to fully expand, including non-tipped TSX's. This suggests that liquid (or other softer media, such as wax or gel) is necessary for hollow-point expansion.

As a more general comment, ran into yet an older guy (even older than me) last fall who shot a mule deer through the lungs with some sort of controlled-expansion bullet and because the buck went maybe 75 yards before falling over. He thought the bullet didn't expand because the exit hole was "caliber size." I asked if he actually looked at the internal damage, and he claimed he did, and it was considerable. I then asked him how in the hell he felt (the only word appropriate at that point) the bullet did not expand. His answer was so vague that he apparently had no idea that he was contradicting himself.


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Re: Barnes bullet... are you completely sold? [Re: BWalker] #14365806 12/12/19
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Originally Posted by BWalker
Originally Posted by 79S
recovered both these 180 partitions from a moose few yrs back. I was using a 30-06, BSA know the 06 very well. Shot was less than 200 yrds. These were from the same box/bag. I don't consider the one partition a failure because I had a dead moose on the ground.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Both of those appear tonhave worked exactly as designed.

For many the bullet on the right is not what a partition should looke like it should look like the one on the left. These are the only partitions I ever recovered.



Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.
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