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Re: Guide to knife steels [Re: geedubya] #14443648 01/07/20
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Are we going to play the metallurgy version of : Good, Fast, Cheap: You can only pick two.

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Re: Guide to knife steels [Re: woods_walker] #14443662 01/07/20
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Originally Posted by woods_walker
Are we going to play the metallurgy version of : Good, Fast, Cheap: You can only pick two.



How about 3 out of 4?


David

Re: Guide to knife steels [Re: geedubya] #14443733 01/07/20
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Ha ha.. I'm thinking we shall soon read about several favorites. Hopefully a good discussion.

Re: Guide to knife steels [Re: Canazes9] #14444403 01/07/20
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Originally Posted by Canazes9
How about steels that are easy to sharpen yet hold an edge a long time, with good toughness?

David


1.2562 @ 67-68HRC.


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Re: Guide to knife steels [Re: geedubya] #14444406 01/07/20
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You guys make sharpening harder than it needs to be. One buy the right stones! Two don't let the edge get so dull it needs to be reworked!

But good stones cost money.


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Re: Guide to knife steels [Re: geedubya] #14445184 01/08/20
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1.2562 @ 67-68HRC.
A bit of info on this please.
Thanks in advance


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Re: Guide to knife steels [Re: MontanaCreekHunter] #14445667 01/08/20
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Originally Posted by MontanaCreekHunter
Originally Posted by Canazes9
How about steels that are easy to sharpen yet hold an edge a long time, with good toughness?

David


1.2562 @ 67-68HRC.




I have no experience with that steel, I was actually thinking of CPM 3V @ 60HRC.

David

Re: Guide to knife steels [Re: Canazes9] #14445857 01/08/20
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Originally Posted by Canazes9
Originally Posted by MontanaCreekHunter
Originally Posted by Canazes9
How about steels that are easy to sharpen yet hold an edge a long time, with good toughness?

David


1.2562 @ 67-68HRC.




I have no experience with that steel, I was actually thinking of CPM 3V @ 60HRC.

David


3V isn't going to hold an edge to the degree of S30V but will be a tougher steel. As far as sharpening goes it has a fair amount of Vanadium so it needs the proper stones to sharpen to make it fit your criteria of ease of sharpening. I am a fan of 3V but not in a hunting/field knife. Bushcraft or fighter would better suit its use.


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Re: Guide to knife steels [Re: michiganroadkill] #14445859 01/08/20
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Originally Posted by michiganroadkill
1.2562 @ 67-68HRC.
A bit of info on this please.
Thanks in advance


Not sure what info you are wanting Tim.


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Re: Guide to knife steels [Re: geedubya] #14445954 01/08/20
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Not a steel I have heard of.
Just wondered who is using it for what purpose.

I did a search.
It is a product out of Germany.
Looks like carbon and tungsten are the work horses in the chemistry.
Only trace amounts of Chromium and Vanadium.

Must be mostly used by hand forging for blades?????

Figured you had some up close and personal info to share on it.

Last edited by michiganroadkill; 01/08/20.

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Re: Guide to knife steels [Re: MontanaCreekHunter] #14446112 01/08/20
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Originally Posted by MontanaCreekHunter
Originally Posted by Canazes9
Originally Posted by MontanaCreekHunter
Originally Posted by Canazes9
How about steels that are easy to sharpen yet hold an edge a long time, with good toughness?

David


1.2562 @ 67-68HRC.




I have no experience with that steel, I was actually thinking of CPM 3V @ 60HRC.

David


3V isn't going to hold an edge to the degree of S30V but will be a tougher steel. As far as sharpening goes it has a fair amount of Vanadium so it needs the proper stones to sharpen to make it fit your criteria of ease of sharpening. I am a fan of 3V but not in a hunting/field knife. Bushcraft or fighter would better suit its use.


Going to beg to differ - I actually have a few knives in CPM 3V and have had ample opportunity to test. The CPM 3V holds an edge better than any S30V I've tried and is very easy to sharpen.

Not sure what "proper stones" you're referring to, but a fine diamond to raise a burr, followed by 600 whetstone and a 2000 whetstone work quite well. Stroping w/ a knivesplus strop w/ white conpound (forget the grit) restores the edge w/o seeing the stones if I don't let them get too dull.

CPM M4 is a close second, also reasonably easy to sharpen. Holds an edge slighly longer but is prone to micro chipping if you get into the bones of an animal when cleaning. I would take either of those two over any of the stainless steels made.

David

Last edited by Canazes9; 01/08/20. Reason: typo
Re: Guide to knife steels [Re: geedubya] #14446890 01/08/20
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My regular users are made of S30V, VG10, D2, ATS-34, 440-C, 154 CM, AUS-8 and early Carbon V. For my tasks they perform very well, but that is of course in my life's laboratory. I think that my knives being of different construction (folder/fixed) and used for somewhat different purposes makes for a challenging comparison.

So it seems our preferences are our opinions.

Last edited by woods_walker; 01/08/20.
Re: Guide to knife steels [Re: woods_walker] #14446985 01/08/20
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Originally Posted by woods_walker
My regular users are made of S30V, VG10, D2, ATS-34, 440-C, 154 CM, AUS-8 and early Carbon V. For my tasks they perform very well, but that is of courses in my life's laboratory. I think that the knives being of different construction (folder/fixed) and used for somewhat different purposes makes for a challenging comparison.

So it seems our preferences are our opinions.


Good point. To clarify, I was talking about knives for cleaning animals. I have pocket knives in a variety of steels from ordinary to exotic - my favorite has S30V. It's not my favorite, because of the steel, but because it works so well as a pocket knife and at the end of the day, the steel choice isn't that big of a deal. Similarly my Dozier Yukon Skinner in D2 gets used a lot because it just works so well (and the D2 is easy to sharpen).

David

Re: Guide to knife steels [Re: Canazes9] #14447110 01/08/20
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Originally Posted by Canazes9


3V isn't going to hold an edge to the degree of S30V but will be a tougher steel. As far as sharpening goes it has a fair amount of Vanadium so it needs the proper stones to sharpen to make it fit your criteria of ease of sharpening. I am a fan of 3V but not in a hunting/field knife. Bushcraft or fighter would better suit its use.


Going to beg to differ - I actually have a few knives in CPM 3V and have had ample opportunity to test. The CPM 3V holds an edge better than any S30V I've tried and is very easy to sharpen.
.

David[/quote]

S30V 4.00% Vanadium vs S3V 2.75 Vanadium

S30V 2.00% Molybdenum vs 1.30% Molybdenum

I am not going to argue with you about your knives you are comparing but I will say that the S30V was clearly not done properly.


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Re: Guide to knife steels [Re: MontanaCreekHunter] #14447437 01/08/20
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Originally Posted by MontanaCreekHunter


S30V 4.00% Vanadium vs S3V 2.75 Vanadium

S30V 2.00% Molybdenum vs 1.30% Molybdenum

I am not going to argue with you about your knives you are comparing but I will say that the S30V was clearly not done properly.


It's a good thing you're not going to argue - particularly w/ your pissy little comments about S30V being done right, because it would make you sound like an arrogant ass that thinks he can read a composition chart and pick a winning steel by looking at it's moybdenum & Vanadium content. It's also an argument you can't win.

Funny thing about using knives to actually field dress game instead of looking at composition charts - you find out how they actually perform vs how they might theoretically perform, or how they might perform in a cutting test utilizing rope or paper or any of the other common test media. Here's a hint: Knives with chips in the blade don't cut as well as knives that don't have chips in the blade. Sharpening knives w/ chips in the blades always takes longer because you have to remove excess material to get them sharp.

S30V chips. It's a well known failing of S30V. The chipping and related workability issues were the reason S35VN was invented (and while it's an improvement, S35VN is still inferior to CPM 3V in actual field use).

CPM 3V doesn't suffer from that problem. It stays sharp, doesn't chip and when you inevitability get into the bone of an animal, worse cae it rolls and is stropped back into service rather easily. Perhaps you should try cleaning multiple animals back to back w/ S30V blades and CPM 3V blades and tell me which one actually works better. Or you could attempt to have a civil discussion where you don't feel the need to belittle anyone that migh have a different opinion than you and you could learn from someone that's been there, done that.

Still waiting for you to regale me with what high end "proper stones" that are required to sharpen any of these steels...

David

Re: Guide to knife steels [Re: MontanaCreekHunter] #14447559 01/08/20
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Originally Posted by MontanaCreekHunter
Originally Posted by Canazes9
Originally Posted by MontanaCreekHunter
Originally Posted by Canazes9
How about steels that are easy to sharpen yet hold an edge a long time, with good toughness?

David


1.2562 @ 67-68HRC.




I have no experience with that steel, I was actually thinking of CPM 3V @ 60HRC.

David


3V isn't going to hold an edge to the degree of S30V but will be a tougher steel. As far as sharpening goes it has a fair amount of Vanadium so it needs the proper stones to sharpen to make it fit your criteria of ease of sharpening. I am a fan of 3V but not in a hunting/field knife. Bushcraft or fighter would better suit its use.


S30v may hold a good working edge, but it does not stay sharp sharp.


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Re: Guide to knife steels [Re: Canazes9] #14447628 01/08/20
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Originally Posted by Canazes9
Originally Posted by MontanaCreekHunter


S30V 4.00% Vanadium vs S3V 2.75 Vanadium

S30V 2.00% Molybdenum vs 1.30% Molybdenum

I am not going to argue with you about your knives you are comparing but I will say that the S30V was clearly not done properly.


It's a good thing you're not going to argue - particularly w/ your pissy little comments about S30V being done right, because it would make you sound like an arrogant ass that thinks he can read a composition chart and pick a winning steel by looking at it's moybdenum & Vanadium content. It's also an argument you can't win.

Funny thing about using knives to actually field dress game instead of looking at composition charts - you find out how they actually perform vs how they might theoretically perform, or how they might perform in a cutting test utilizing rope or paper or any of the other common test media. Here's a hint: Knives with chips in the blade don't cut as well as knives that don't have chips in the blade. Sharpening knives w/ chips in the blades always takes longer because you have to remove excess material to get them sharp.

S30V chips. It's a well known failing of S30V. The chipping and related workability issues were the reason S35VN was invented (and while it's an improvement, S35VN is still inferior to CPM 3V in actual field use).

CPM 3V doesn't suffer from that problem. It stays sharp, doesn't chip and when you inevitability get into the bone of an animal, worse cae it rolls and is stropped back into service rather easily. Perhaps you should try cleaning multiple animals back to back w/ S30V blades and CPM 3V blades and tell me which one actually works better. Or you could attempt to have a civil discussion where you don't feel the need to belittle anyone that migh have a different opinion than you and you could learn from someone that's been there, done that.

Still waiting for you to regale me with what high end "proper stones" that are required to sharpen any of these steels...

David


Haha yeah I have never seen an animal let alone use a knife on one. But with all your experience with game animals one would tend to think you would know how to use a knife by now! Funny that escapes you. As for stones you are all knowing you don't need my help. smile smile smile

So again S30V done properly will out cut S3V. Yes S3V is a tougher steel, nowhere did I say it wasn't! Hence why it makes a great fighter or Bushcraft knife.

The arrogant ass is you!


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Re: Guide to knife steels [Re: geedubya] #14447658 01/08/20
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Your heat treater makes all of the difference, Brad is the go to guy ....... smile


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Re: Guide to knife steels [Re: jimy] #14447722 01/08/20
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Originally Posted by jimy
Your heat treater makes all of the difference, Brad is the go to guy ....... smile


Peter's does great work but they work off the data sheet, generally.

There are sole proprietor's out there that are extracting every decimal point they can out of heat treating.

Phill Hartsfield was pushing A2 long ago, to points at the time no one was getting. He wouldn't give out his techniques and a lot of knife makers didn't like that. But he put time, materials, and effort into it. He kept it his trade secret.

Today there is a bunch of guys doing the same and are getting really good numbers.

But You the user need to know how to use the knife. It isn't a pry bar, hammer, axe, etc. Those knife makers can make you a knife that will take abuse. They just prefer to make tools for guys that know how to use them. In doing so they have amazing geometry, heat treat, and are using steels that most other makers just won't touch.


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Re: Guide to knife steels [Re: geedubya] #14447730 01/08/20
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I'll stick with Brad.......


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