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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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What kind of wolf did a chihuahua come from? It’s hard to consider some of those ankle bitters dogs. But, they’re just inbred for many generations to be small. I guess I’d be pissed too all of the time if that was done to me. I doubt we will never truly know how dogs came about or how anything really happen as none of us were there. All I know for sure is that in my opinion no other animal can connect with a person quite like a dog. I’ve have witnessed through working with them in hostile environments how truly loyal they can be. A dog will give its own life to protect its owner/master/ handler whatever. I haven’t witnessed that behavior in any other animal. So, I’m inclined to believe that the relationship is deeply rooted in our history of evolution and that it was one of coexistence. Just my warm and fuzzy take. this, best post yet.
God bless Texas----------------------- Old 300 I will remain what i am until the day I die- A HUNTER......Sitting Bull Its not how you pick the booger.. but where you put it !! Roger V Hunter
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
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What kind of wolf did a chihuahua come from? It’s hard to consider some of those ankle bitters dogs. But, they’re just inbred for many generations to be small. I guess I’d be pissed too all of the time if that was done to me. I doubt we will never truly know how dogs came about or how anything really happen as none of us were there. All I know for sure is that in my opinion no other animal can connect with a person quite like a dog. I’ve have witnessed through working with them in hostile environments how truly loyal they can be. A dog will give its own life to protect its owner/master/ handler whatever. I haven’t witnessed that behavior in any other animal. So, I’m inclined to believe that the relationship is deeply rooted in our history of evolution and that it was one of coexistence. Just my warm and fuzzy take. I have seen it in a few good horses. The best Cavalry boys would die for their horse, with good cause. I have known several horses which would babysit little kids better than any dog ever could.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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What kind of wolf did a chihuahua come from? It’s hard to consider some of those ankle bitters dogs. But, they’re just inbred for many generations to be small. I guess I’d be pissed too all of the time if that was done to me. I doubt we will never truly know how dogs came about or how anything really happen as none of us were there. All I know for sure is that in my opinion no other animal can connect with a person quite like a dog. I’ve have witnessed through working with them in hostile environments how truly loyal they can be. A dog will give its own life to protect its owner/master/ handler whatever. I haven’t witnessed that behavior in any other animal. So, I’m inclined to believe that the relationship is deeply rooted in our history of evolution and that it was one of coexistence. Just my warm and fuzzy take. I have seen it in a few good horses. The best Cavalry boys would die for their horse, with good cause. I have known several horses which would babysit little kids better than any dog ever could. I'd challenge that. Wish I had video of our old chessie Rio...
"Chances Will Be Taken"
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Campfire Regular
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It is not a stretch of the imagination to figure that some wild animals whose very lives depend on it, will figure out ways to take advantage of human behavior and act on it.
Yes, there are quite a number of examples of that. One that springs to mind is the killer whales of Eden, New South Wales. For over 100 years there was a pod of killer whales which would co-operate with the local whalers to round up humpbacks and other baleen whales. The killer whales would even come in close to shore and thrash around as a signal to say "there's some out here for you", and then lead the whalers out in their rowboats to get them. In return the whalers would kill the baleen whales and then leave them out for the orcas to eat the tongues before towing the carcases to shore for harvesting the blubber.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Then there is the African Honey Guide bird. It locates bee nests. When it seems humans walking through the bush, it approaches and jabbers at them until they follow it to the nest. After the humans gather up the honey, they leave a batch on a log for the bird.
It would not be a stretch to envision humans keeping captive Honey Guides and letting them out whenever they wanted to find some honey.
Don't blame me. I voted for Trump.
Democrats would burn this country to the ground, if they could rule over the ashes.
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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The blacks in Africa say if you don't leave honey for the bird he will lead a mamba to you bed.
NOVIT EMIM DOMINUS QUI SUNT EUIS {Arnauld Amalric} "Kill them all,God will know His." Never trust Horses ,Women and very few Mules.A good rifle will let in lots of AIR AND LIGHT.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
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Aus indigenous were still in the stoneage till about Late 18th century and had dingo in their camps/communities for how long?
Yet according to TRH theres no chance primitive man would have and support a wolf type that could not provide much of any benefit.
BIRD said they even make lousy pets. So what were the natives thinking for millennia by having them around?
You are making an assumption that wild dingoes are the same dogs that aborigines kept around their camps. The most important part of any dog is the grey matter that lies inside it's skull. A modern example would be the Australian Shepherd, which is now differentiated into two defined types; the working type and the show type. The working type is the original Aussie (actually originating in the Basque Region of Spain), selected for ability as a working herding dog. The show type is a classic example of the hefty middle-aged ladies and Gay men in the AKC ruining a dog by inbreeding them for appearance. They are all "Aussies", just half of 'em are useless. Another example is the Icelandic Sheepdog; resembles a husky but has working sheepdog brain, acts more like a border collie that a husky, despite outward appearances. The advice about wild dingoes to to adopt them before six weeks of age and then socialize them "aggressively", do all that and you'll get a PITA dog that has no desire at all to please you by following your commands. One thing of note about dingoes is they can go an extraordinary amount of time without water as compared to a regular dog. Heeler owners proudly point to the infusion of dingo genes into their dog's lineage as making them tougher, there may be truth to this. Another thing to consider is that, to the best of our knowledge, Aborigines did not use their dogs as hunting companions, at least not the men. There is a paper out that suggests they did assist the women in catching small game while the women were out doing the gathering part of the hunter/gatherer equation. They also famously used them as electric blankets on cold nights and presumably, along with many other contemporary Nations, employed them as the functional equivalent of the hog in the Old World; a converter of waste food into edible meat.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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There weren't no humans, or dogs 26000 years ago.
The world is only 4000, OK, maybe 6000 years old, depending on the interpretation of the calendars.
Everything, I mean EVERYTHING come off that Ark just like it is and is sposed to be.
GEno
What does that have to do with this thread? Nobody with an IQ has believed such fairy tales for 200 years or more. i'm hoping its satire. geez, my dna markers have been traced to the end of the ice age on the steppes of russia, a lot longer than 4k years ago. on the other hand, they may have been good swimmers, and just missed the boat. Ron and Indy, I do believe there are some folks without IQs. Measurable ones at least. Some may even post here at times. Geno
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men. In it is contentment In it is death and all you seek (Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Because it was way, way back in the rear of a cave.
The better question is: Why was it wet enough for the tracks to be formed in the first place. Perhaps it was the urinal/lavatory? Many caves have water in them, sometimes flowing, sometimes just dripping. In the Shoshone Ice Cave north of here, it drips in and freezes, year round.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2011
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What kind of wolf did a chihuahua come from? It’s hard to consider some of those ankle bitters dogs. But, they’re just inbred for many generations to be small. I guess I’d be pissed too all of the time if that was done to me. I doubt we will never truly know how dogs came about or how anything really happen as none of us were there. All I know for sure is that in my opinion no other animal can connect with a person quite like a dog. I’ve have witnessed through working with them in hostile environments how truly loyal they can be. A dog will give its own life to protect its owner/master/ handler whatever. I haven’t witnessed that behavior in any other animal. So, I’m inclined to believe that the relationship is deeply rooted in our history of evolution and that it was one of coexistence. Just my warm and fuzzy take. Yeah, we co-evolved, for sure. We've merged into a symbiosis. Co-evolved? So that evolution stuff is real? In only 4000-6000 years? Geno
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men. In it is contentment In it is death and all you seek (Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
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Wolves make very poor guardians of humans/properties, and poor alarm animals, too. No chit? Good thing wolves are natural pointers and retrievers, then! Look at photos of a wolf, coyote or fox about to pounce on rodent prey, an intent posture not unlike a bird dog on point. I have never heard of a wolf freezing in that position while another pack member gets into position, certainly sounds like something they would do though. Likewise all members of a wolfpack will bring food back to the pups. So is your lab regarding you as a puppy in the field? Hard to say, but what is happening is that a small part of the complete repertoire of wolf behavior has been selectively bred into a compulsion on the part of a certain dog breed. 'Nother example; when I was a teenager in the '70's Old English Sheepdogs were in vogue thanks to some Disney movies. In short order American dog breeders were turning out 70lb non-functional mounds of hair with bad hips. We had a well-to-do family friend who went right to the source and actually imported one from England. Turns out that dog had a working sheepdog's brain (actual sheep-herding Old English Sheepdogs - who knew?). She gave us Mozart when he was two. One of the two really great dogs I've owned in life. In contrast to the AKC products, Mozart weighed just fifty pounds and was fast and agile. Would chase stuff if commanded, just wouldn't kill it. We lived in an old house with a porch closed off by a second door, we kept free range chickens and kept a bag of chicken feed in that porch. One day there was a large rat hiding behind that bag. I closed myself and the dog inside the porch, as maybe 6 foot x 5 foot box, pulled the bag away and chaos broke out. The squirrel-sized rat was bouncing off the walls and off of my legs trying to get away. Mozart was highly excited, his nose right on the rat the whole time. Wouldn't bite it. In England, sheepdogs are bred with a bite-inhibition, that being regarded as a serious fault when herding sheep. Mozart was never taught this, that wasn't necessary, anymore than a good lab has to be taught to go get that thrown object. In the same way my present dog is a Blue Heeler, another herding breed. My Heeler is ALL about going in teethfirst Does it naturally (or would if I let her). Again a small part of the total range of wolf behaviors selectively bred into a near obsession on the part of a dog breed.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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lets not get to complicated here.
one day a guy was taking a piss and a wolf/dog came over and sniff it, the guy threw him a bone and they were friends ever after.... pretty simple and as good a explanation as any.
God bless Texas----------------------- Old 300 I will remain what i am until the day I die- A HUNTER......Sitting Bull Its not how you pick the booger.. but where you put it !! Roger V Hunter
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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lets not get to complicated here.
one day a guy was taking a piss and a wolf/dog came over and sniff it, the guy threw him a bone and they were friends ever after.... pretty simple and as good a explanation as any. Works for me............. as long as it didn't happen more than 6000 years ago Geno
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men. In it is contentment In it is death and all you seek (Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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lets not get to complicated here.
one day a guy was taking a piss and a wolf/dog came over and sniff it, the guy threw him a bone and they were friends ever after.... pretty simple and as good a explanation as any. Works for me............. as long as it didn't happen more than 6000 years ago Geno i get a kick out of man trying to explain creation or anything before written history..... only man is arrogant enough to think they could know. only god knows.
God bless Texas----------------------- Old 300 I will remain what i am until the day I die- A HUNTER......Sitting Bull Its not how you pick the booger.. but where you put it !! Roger V Hunter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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You are making an assumption that wild dingoes are the same dogs that aborigines kept around their camps. ...
I simply said Dingo without any distinction between wild or domesticated, and did so for a reason. Aborigines never really domesticated the native dingo like we have done so with dogs. The dingoes nature wouldnt buy it. But they did develop a relationship that benefited humans to sufficient degree [pros vs cons] that the dingo was considered worth having in the community. According to AuGeo, dingo proved among other things - An effective hunting aid and effective guard role especially for the women and chidren, which then resulted in benefits for the whole community. https://www.australiangeographic.com.au/topics/wildlife/2017/08/cultural-history-of-the-dingo/
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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lets not get to complicated here.
one day a guy was taking a piss and a wolf/dog came over and sniff it, the guy threw him a bone and they were friends ever after.... pretty simple and as good a explanation as any. Works for me............. as long as it didn't happen more than 6000 years ago Geno i get a kick out of man trying to explain creation or anything before written history..... only man is arrogant enough to think they could know. only god knows. You my friend might have an IQ. Geno
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men. In it is contentment In it is death and all you seek (Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
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Aborigines never really domesticated the native dingo like we have done so with dogs. The dingoes nature wouldn't buy it. What constitutes "really domesticated"? Dogs that live in your camp, breed in your camp, follow you around, accompany your women and children, eat at your fire and get used as actual living blankets by you, your women and kids when everybody sleeps at night aren't "really domesticated" because "their nature won't allow it"? Perhaps you ain't been around dogs much. I'll say it again; the most important part of a dog is the grey stuff between it's ears. Two similar-looking dogs can be night and day.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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What constitutes "really domesticated"? Dogs that live in your camp, breed in your camp,... ... aren't "really domesticated" because "their nature won't allow it"? :eyeroll:
Maybe you should bother to read the AG source link I provided above: Quote]... "the pups generally returned to the wild once mature (at one or two years of age) to breed. As such, dingoes maintained the dual roles of human companion and top-order predator –" Perhaps you ain't been around dogs much.. .
Whats your experience with dingo? You are making an assumption that wild dingoes are the same dogs that aborigines kept around their camps. ...
Whether dingoes were really domesticated in the sense like most regular dogs are, remains debatable. Hence why earlier I was careful not to distinguish between wild and domesticated.... Simply refering to dingo as having a 'relationship' with natives.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Aborigines never really domesticated the native dingo like we have done so with dogs. The dingoes nature wouldn't buy it. What constitutes "really domesticated"? Dogs that live in your camp, breed in your camp,... ... aren't "really domesticated" because "their nature won't allow it"? :eyeroll: Maybe you should bother to read the AG source link I provided above: Quote]... [/i] "the pups generally returned to the wild once mature (at one or two years of age) to breed. As such, dingoes maintained the dual roles of human companion and top-order predator –" non of that means chit
God bless Texas----------------------- Old 300 I will remain what i am until the day I die- A HUNTER......Sitting Bull Its not how you pick the booger.. but where you put it !! Roger V Hunter
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Because it was way, way back in the rear of a cave.
The better question is: Why was it wet enough for the tracks to be formed in the first place. Perhaps it was the urinal/lavatory? Many caves have water in them, sometimes flowing, sometimes just dripping. In the Shoshone Ice Cave north of here, it drips in and freezes, year round. RC, the point is, how could the cave be wet enough for tracks to form in the wet clay, but remain dry enough to preserve those tracks for 26 millenia?
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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