That's why you still see older pilots sitting in the right seat of airliners. They may be good technical pilots but they are afraid to, or don't know when to make the "hard decisions". The ones where you say "no, we're not going to do that". Captains can do that.
That's why you still see older pilots sitting in the right seat of airliners. They may be good technical pilots but they are afraid to, or don't know when to make the "hard decisions". The ones where you say "no, we're not going to do that". Captains can do that.
Secondly and contrary to what some witnesses say that this was somehow a slower speed impact. Instead, the sheriff authorities have confirmed a very high speed bank to the left upon impact.
12 to 18 months until the final NTSB report is disclosed.
If ATC said he was "too low for flight following" - meaning they couldn't see him on radar, how dafu k do they know what he did once he dropped down from altitude? He could have dropped quickly down when he saw an opening in the clouds/fog and then rambled around slowly at low altitude looking for a way out or a reference point. This is one case where I'm believing the witness at the church.
...........................You can drop below radar detection while still being fairly high off the ground depending on the terrain. I would assume that the best way you could determine if a high speed impact occurred,, or not to have occurred,,, would be to carefully look at the debris field, the condition of the wreckage, plus other variables.
During that latest press conference update, the sheriff officials stated that a high speed impact took place. That tells me that they acquired that info from the on site NTSB investigators who were actually at the scene of the crash.
Secondly and contrary to what some witnesses say that this was somehow a slower speed impact. Instead, the sheriff authorities have confirmed a very high speed bank to the left upon impact.
12 to 18 months until the final NTSB report is disclosed.
If ATC said he was "too low for flight following" - meaning they couldn't see him on radar, how dafu k do they know what he did once he dropped down from altitude? He could have dropped quickly down when he saw an opening in the clouds/fog and then rambled around slowly at low altitude looking for a way out or a reference point. This is one case where I'm believing the witness at the church.
...........................You can drop below radar detection while still being fairly high off the ground depending on the terrain. I would assume that the best way you could determine if a high speed impact occurred,, or not to have occurred,,, would be to carefully look at the debris field, the condition of the wreckage, plus other variables.
During that latest press conference update, the sheriff officials stated that a high speed impact took place. That tells me that they acquired that info from the on site NTSB investigators who were actually at the scene of the crash.
The pictures I've seen show a mess of rotor blades/parts higher on the hill with the fuselage and tail rotor and burned debris further down the hill.
Witnesses nearby who took picture of the fireball said they saw the bird come down out of the cloud and hit terra firma some couple hundred feet away.
After reaching 2300, it turned and dropped 500 ft in 15 seconds. Impacting at 1085 ft At below 1500 cloud gave way to fog/low vis.
500 feet in 15 seconds is a relatively slow "drop", isn't it?
Depends on the angle of the glide path
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
[quote=Starman] 500 feet in 15 seconds is a relatively slow "drop", isn't it?
Not really, that's 2000 fpm. That will kill you. A carrier landing for example, executed at a 3.5 deg glide slope, will run about 650-700 FPM and you hit pretty hard.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
Witnesses nearby who took picture of the fireball said they saw the bird come down out of the cloud and hit terra firma some couple hundred feet away.
After reaching 2300, it turned and dropped 500 ft in 15 seconds. Impacting at 1085 ft At below 1500 cloud gave way to fog/low vis.
500 feet in 15 seconds is a relatively slow "drop", isn't it?
..............................Yeah it is. For a vertical drop it is slow. The questions then would be, what was the angle of descent and speed of the chopper on the more horizontal plain.
My best guess from the information we currently have. Pilot error, 100%. He had many opportunities to turn back, but didn't. Accidents are a chain of events leading up to the crash, he didn't break the chain.
Best guess, he eventually went IIMC, didn't have the situational awareness to know he was headed straight for the mountain. He did, however, initiate a climb. Now what happened after is the big question... but no matter what happened next, they never should have been in that position to begin with.
Did they clip something like wires, the mountain itself? Possibly. But, from what I've read, the turning descent at 2000fpm and 184mph, would only have me thinking main rotor damage. Tail rotor, no. That would be an immediate auto rotation and controlled descent around the 2000fpm, but at 80 knots, ish, not twice that.
How often did he fly actual IFR? Did he get spacial disorientation and, despite having instruments to reference, simply lose control and all reference with little time to regain control?
I think the only thing we do know is they shouldn't have continued that flight, or not gone in the first place.
[quote=Starman] 500 feet in 15 seconds is a relatively slow "drop", isn't it?
Not really, that's 2000 fpm. That will kill you. A carrier landing for example, executed at a 3.5 deg glide slope, will run about 650-700 FPM and you hit pretty hard.
Helicopters don't necessarily have to maintain a constant glide path during stable powered flight, even in autorotation, so the forward airspeed can vary during the descent.
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
My best guess from the information we currently have. Pilot error, 100%. He had many opportunities to turn back, but didn't. Accidents are a chain of events leading up to the crash, he didn't break the chain.
Best guess, he eventually went IIMC, didn't have the situational awareness to know he was headed straight for the mountain. He did, however, initiate a climb. Now what happened after is the big question... but no matter what happened next, they never should have been in that position to begin with.
Did they clip something like wires, the mountain itself? Possibly. But, from what I've read, the turning descent at 2000fpm and 184mph, would only have me thinking main rotor damage. Tail rotor, no. That would be an immediate auto rotation and controlled descent around the 2000fpm, but at 80 knots, ish, not twice that.
How often did he fly actual IFR? Did he get spacial disorientation and, despite having instruments to reference, simply lose control and all reference with little time to regain control?
I think the only thing we do know is they shouldn't have continued that flight, or not gone in the first place.
RIP to all
This is a most reasonable speculation IMHBO. As for the pilot's poor judgement to fly that day, in light of the weather, Kobe was the host of that tournament, and had probably decided not to drive, and knew that they would be late (2-hour drive) if they did not take the helicopter, so he made the pilot an offer he couldn't refuse. The rest was a chain of bad decisions, as you say.
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
My best guess from the information we currently have. Pilot error, 100%. He had many opportunities to turn back, but didn't. Accidents are a chain of events leading up to the crash, he didn't break the chain.
Best guess, he eventually went IIMC, didn't have the situational awareness to know he was headed straight for the mountain. He did, however, initiate a climb. Now what happened after is the big question... but no matter what happened next, they never should have been in that position to begin with.
Did they clip something like wires, the mountain itself? Possibly. But, from what I've read, the turning descent at 2000fpm and 184mph, would only have me thinking main rotor damage. Tail rotor, no. That would be an immediate auto rotation and controlled descent around the 2000fpm, but at 80 knots, ish, not twice that.
How often did he fly actual IFR? Did he get spacial disorientation and, despite having instruments to reference, simply lose control and all reference with little time to regain control?
I think the only thing we do know is they shouldn't have continued that flight, or not gone in the first place.
LOS ANGELES (AP) — The helicopter carrying Kobe Bryant didn’t have a recommended warning system to alert the pilot he was too close to land but it’s not clear it would have averted the crash that killed nine because the pilot may have lost control as the aircraft plunged into a fog-shrouded mountain, federal investigators said Tuesday.
Pilot Ara Zobayan had been climbing out of the clouds when the aircraft banked left and began a sudden and terrifying 1,200-foot (366-meter) descent that lasted nearly a minute.
“This is a pretty steep descent at high speed,” said Jennifer Homendy of the National Transportation Safety Board. "We know that this was a high-energy impact crash."
The aircraft was intact when it hit the ground, but the impact spread debris over more than 500 feet (150 meters). Remains of the final victims were recovered Tuesday and so far the remains of Bryant, Zobayan and two other passengers have been identified using fingerprints.
Determining what caused the crash will take months, but investigators may again recommend that to avoid future crashes helicopters carrying six or more passenger seats be equipped with a Terrain Awareness and Warning System that would have sounded an alarm if the aircraft was in danger of crashing.
The agency made that recommendation after a similar helicopter, a Sikorsky S-76A carrying workers to an offshore drilling ship, crashed in the Gulf of Mexico near Galveston, Texas, killing all 10 people on board in 2004.
The NTSB concluded if TAWS had been installed, pilots would have been warned in time to prevent hitting the water. The board recommended that the Federal Aviation Administration require the warning systems. Ten years later, the FAA eventually required such systems on air ambulances, but not other helicopters.
Ben
Some days it takes most of the day for me to do practically nothing...
I really don't understand all the press coverage and outpouring over Kobe Bryant; yes, he was good at basketball, but he was just a basketball player. There are thousands who die each year who have made solid long-lasting contributions to mankind and science.
Helicopters don't necessarily have to maintain a constant glide path during stable powered flight, even in autorotation..
welcome to the absurdity of the CF, people trying to parallel FW carrier landing to RW.
and more CF clueless trademark stupid from same person.. just think - you can be that ignorant and still work in the Pentagon.
Originally Posted by jorgeI
.. 0/0 height/vis ... Other than extreme operational requirements (as in we are in a war and men are dying so you need to launch), there is absolutely ZERO NEED to take off in those conditions.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
I really don't understand all the press coverage and outpouring over Kobe Bryant; yes, he was good at basketball, but he was just a basketball player. There are thousands who die each year who have made solid long-lasting contributions to mankind and science.
AMEN!
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
