Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats Barrel Heavier or not?

As most know, I picked up a #5 Douglas barrel from Flinch in addition to a mag. 700 LA. My purpose is a longer range type rifle, so it'll have some heft. I'm wanting it for punching paper, tags, and varmints in places where the distances get longer than normal. But, what I'm wondering is when I save up enough pennies should I get a barrel channel a bit beefier than needed for a #5 for the next barrel? What about getting a Rem Varmint barrel BC?

Right now I'm planning on a McM A3 stock, unless I get talked out of it in favor of a HTG.

I'm kinda going through some screwy rig a ma row like you are right now, With a project. My advise is sell the #5 barrel for whatever you can get for it, And put the money towards the barrel you really want, And order your stock for that barrel channel.

Good luck

I didn't quite follow you concisely and don't quite understand your concerns.

If you wish to utilize the barrel you have on hand,get the stock inletted for it. Should your thoughts lead you to employ that barrel and shooting it out,while still having concerns about a future replacement barrel of heavier contour,you are in very good shape. Not that big of a deal to open the barrel channel up for whatever contour you crave next.

So you could use your existing barrel and when it is time for a fresh tube,you could either duplicate it's contour dimensions or easily exceed them. All within the same stock.

If I failed to touch on your concerns,try to elaborate a little more. I'm pretty slow and miss a lotta thingsI...................

The rule of thumb is the long range rifle should be heavy. For best shooting, the weight steadys it. The weight also soaks up recoil, and slows the recoil velocity. The military snipers use 14-16 lb. rifles in the .308, for instance. Extra barrel weight shouldn't have much effect on accuracy.
The stock choice would be based on intended use. The HGT stock is lots nicer to carry in the field. If all your shooting will be from prone, and not much walking, the A-3 would probably be a better choice. E

Thanks for the replies! Stick, I guess my concern is/was how much the barrel channel can be opened, which from you post doesn't seem to be a problem. The #5 seems heavy compared to the sporter contours that I have, so I'll go with it till it pukes and then decide if I need a beefier tube. Thanks again for the help.

The stocks you mention,will accept a barrel that is receiver diameter(1.350"-ish),the same diameter as my BIG 233Ackley.

A #5 contoured barrel,is fully capable of producing scary accuracy. A heavier tube likely won't shade that,but will be softer shooting and depending upon the rest employed may be easier to shoot well. I really like my heavy 223AI off a Harris bipod and a rear bag. It takes an absolute tremor of major magnitude,to induce error in bullet placement via that machine.

You have lots of options available to you,all of them subjective and my advice is to grab hold of something similar to what you have schemed so as to get some hands on. The more stuff you can fondle and taste,the more you can accurately determine what suits your tastes/needs best.

So much easier to hand somebody a rifle,rather than try to relate subtle differences via text..................

Thanks BS, that clears it up. Thanks for 'holding my hand' for a bit! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Stick nailed it as per usual. Shooting your new toy a lot will develope some skills, likes and dislikes per your inexpensive set up. By the time the barrel pukes, you will know exactly what you want on the next one. You can go whole hog on your dream rifle from there. I think that is the way most of us started out. Wanna go shooting this weekend and pick up your action? It is supposed to be warm <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Flinch

I'd love to go shooting, but I have a pard from back home coming into town on Sat. He's wanting to terrorize some of the ski bunnies!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> He's living the following Thurs. and since I'm on Spring Break that week I'd be able to then.

So, the consensus is shoot the barrel till it pukes and then hopefully I'll know what I want. I think I can handle that.

E,

I don't think your post came across as intended. Extra barrel weight does indeed affects accuracy, in a good way. Extra barrel weight dampens harmonics better, thus allowing for more consistency and accuracy. That's why BR guns are heavy barreled. In a hunting rifle, this usually traslates to a heavier contour being less fussy about loads than a lighter contour in a given barrel length.

Blaine

I'd disagree.

BR guns are designed to shoot a longer shot string,than a typical Game rifle.

Lesser barrel diameter does not automatically equate to a loss in accuracy,but it is more affected by longer shot strings,as heat is a result.

Good quality barrels are seldom fussy,regardless of contour. Opt a high load density,use good brass and seat 'em to kiss and she'll shine.

Your mileage may vary...........

Stick,

I knew I'd get a bite out of you on that. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Let me launch in to this for the "benefit" of those who haven't stumbled across this before..........then I have to practice my trumpet and reload some cases--I just love working with brass.........

I am not saying smaller diameter barrels are necessarily inaccurate, and I do agree a good qulity barrel makes everything better. I do contend skinny barrels are more fussy about the loads they like. Since the heavier barrel dampens harmonics better, it will likely be easier to load for, it will likely shoot more loads better, and has more ultimate accuracy POTENTIAL. This potential is not always realized in a big game rifle.

BR rifle are all about accuracy and consistency. Usually over a 5-shot string. If they could get as good of accuracy out of a longer skinnier barrel they would certainly use one. The longer barrel provides more velocity and thus helps reduce wind drift. Yet when faced with a weight limit and the choice of long/skinny vs short/fat, the BR guys choose short/fat. Why?

It has to do with the way a barrel vibrates. I'll describe this in a way that will probably make the engineers cringe, but I'll do my best to convey the concept. We all know a barrel vibrates in a sine wave, with one point of no movement where it's threaded to the receiver, and the other point of no movement a few inches prior to the muzzle. The longer and/or skinnier the barrel is, the further from the muzzle this second point of no movement is, and thus the more the muzzle end moves.

In a perect world, we could find the exact load for every barrel so that the bullet always exits the muzzle at the exact same point it it's vibration cycle. If we could do this, every barrel would shoot very tiny groups all the time. However, the world isn't perfect so these bulelts are exiting in slightly different points in muzzle travel for each shot. Since a heavier/fatter barrel's muzzle moves less than a longer/skinnier barrels muzzle, the heavier/fatter barrel will be less affected by these variations in bullet exit points.

How much does all this affect hunting rifles? A little. If we are happy with 1/2" groups in our varmint rigs and 3/4" groups in out big game rifles--and I mean the average of several groups, not just one or two good ones--then the barrel contour of a quality barrel, within reason, doesn't seem to make a huge difference. We've all seen that. However, I've found that a heavier contour barrel is usually a little easier to find a load for and seems to be a tad more consistent.

Blaine

Some thoughts:

Most of the BR boys shoot damned high pressures so as to extract ALL velocity potential and often gun conditions(shoot shot strings quickly).

They most often look to barrel mass to defeat heating(rapid fire pokes at high pressures),rather than create barrels that are 40" long,so as to grant extry speeds.

Much of that due to their shooting propellants on the "quick" side and of modest capacities. Barrel length means dick to their velocity expectations,as light bullets rule that roost on the average.

Harmonics play a much larger role in the 22lr games,as one can't tailor loads to his barrel as easily. There MUCH thought(winning) is geared via a harmonic barrel tuning device.

That's why Unlimited Class Centerfire stuff don't thoroughly trump the hand held stuff of much lighter contour and overall weight. The most amazing records were yielded from shoulder fired rifles,of very sedate weights(contours),in a direct comparison.

Food for thought......................

I guess my take is a little different. I do agree they load hot, and they desire load density and high velocity for consistency and wind resistence. While barrel mass does help with heat dissipation away from the bore and chamber, and it does help the "runners", it doesn't help the "pickers". I think the main purpose of mass is harmonic control. I also agree they shoot quick powders in 300 yd and under BR, but an extra 6" of barrel will still yeild and extra 150-200 fps which is significant in terms of wind drift. Also, the 1000 yd BR guys shoot slower powders and still favor heavier barrels. Granted, there was a factory barreled Sendero in 300 Win that scored pretty high in a 1000 yd match a while back (though it didn't win). That's not an inditement against heavy barrels, but a testament to the importance of reading the wind. I also have a barrel tuner on my Rem 541 T HB. It has helped accuracy a little, though my main reason was to be able to shoot cheaper ammo well. I didn't expect a big accuracy gain beacue it already has a straight .820" diameter barrel. Regardless, $10 a box of 50 for Federal Ultra Match doesn't exactly make a 22LR cost effective.

Got toot the flugel for a while now........

Blaine

Tell Mangioni I said "hey"!..................

Pointer,

You and I are in similar country in that we are both in the early stages of serious darkside conversion. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I am still working on my first "custom" and will be sending the 2nd in very soon.

This is the quote from Stick that sticks in my mind:

"You have lots of options available to you,all of them subjective and my advice is to grab hold of something similar to what you have schemed so as to get some hands on. The more stuff you can fondle and taste,the more you can accurately determine what suits your tastes/needs best."

I think that you just need to take the plunge and learn from the process. I am not trying to downplay the educational process, but at one point you need to pony up the bucks and just go for it. You will like the result even knowing that the next one will have refinements that you didn't think about on the first one.

This website is awesome in the knowledge we can pick up on, but at one point or another we have to pay to play! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Don't know if this is any kind of help, but I sure don;t regret it!

APF

Today I ordered a new Pardue double cup mouthpeice. If you have enough gray hair you'll know what that is.... Someone started reproducing them about 12 years ago and I just found out. The old origionals are getting to be rare as hen's teeth. It should arrive here Monday. I can't wait to do some screeching and wailing with it on the old Benge trumpet. I don't know about you, but us old farts need all the help we can get on those double C's.

The same company who is producing these also bought out the Rudy Muck mouthpiece co. I left the web site addy at my office. If you are interested I'll email or PM it at you.

Sorry to get off topic guys. If y'all think custom rifle people are a crazy bunch of perfectionists and egomaniacs I got some bad news, They don't hold $hit next to a room full of crazy trumpet players. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Now just imagine how bad it is when a crazy trumpet player is also a custom rifle / gun nut. The really scary thing is; there's alot more of us out there than you might think. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Some thing I find that is not often addressed when fitting heavier barrels to a rifle is the way it affects the balance of the rifle.
One reason I do not like the really long heavy barrel rifles like the 40XBKS for example is that the rifle is really nose heavy,which is not really necassary for its intended purpose.
I have seen a few rifles balance ruined by screwing on the longest heaviest barrel the owner could find.

Just a thought,
Regards,
Charlie.

Charlie,

Good to see you over here on the other side of the fence.

I heartily concur with your above statements. A guy has gotta counterbalance all that weight he stabs out front,especially on the longer tubes,as they are leverage in the wrong direction...................

Charlie,

My first barrel heavy rifle was a Rem Sendero (non-fluted) in 7mm Rem mag. I got it in 1994. At first, I didn't like the heavy nose. After shooting it a short while, I came to prefer it and still do. I have all my rifles built to be a barrel heavy. I find when I quickly shoulder the gun, the target (animal) is centered in the scope. I love the stability the nose heavy balance provides when shooting offhand. Also, the heavy nose reduces felt recoil.

I think the rifle balance is a matter of personal taste--some will like it nose heavy, others won't. The only drawback to nose heavy is it does take some getting used to. If a guy who is not used to a nose heavy rifle makes his decision based on one shooting session, he probably will decide against it.

Blaine