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Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 11
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OP
New Member
Joined: Dec 2019
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,093 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,093 Likes: 5 |
It all depends on how the information is presented.
There is no mention of length of time to incapacitation. Arguably the most relevant/important aspect of a defensive handgun chambering.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,104 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,104 Likes: 5 |
Much of the variance is within the margins of error.
If I had his full data set I'd do a proper analysis to determine how much of the "difference" was potentially due to chance.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,920
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,920 |
The problem with all shooting statistics is they are based only on dead bodies....in other words the successes... We have no clue how many failures to stop there were.
The last three shooting I worked as an LEO were all .22s and all were incapacitated within seconds after they were hit. Two died at the scene and the other in the hospital. But for that number I've seen tons of shooting victims that checked themselves into the hospital with .22 bullets in them and went home the next day...
Bob
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,980 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,980 Likes: 6 |
Define valid. They aren't valid against a determined attack bigger hoke inflict greater damage. Prepare for the worst case scenario and hope for the best
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,104 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,104 Likes: 5 |
The problem with all shooting statistics is they are based only on dead bodies....in other words the successes... We have no clue how many failures to stop there were.
The last three shooting I worked as an LEO were all .22s and all were incapacitated within seconds after they were hit. Two died at the scene and the other in the hospital. But for that number I've seen tons of shooting victims that checked themselves into the hospital with .22 bullets in them and went home the next day...
Bob Bob, That is a very, very good point.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 9,009
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 9,009 |
The problem with all shooting statistics is they are based only on dead bodies....in other words the successes... We have no clue how many failures to stop there were.
The last three shooting I worked as an LEO were all .22s and all were incapacitated within seconds after they were hit. Two died at the scene and the other in the hospital. But for that number I've seen tons of shooting victims that checked themselves into the hospital with .22 bullets in them and went home the next day...
Bob Bob, That is a very, very good point. Seriously!
Wade
"Let's Roll!" - Todd Beamer 9/11/01.
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,436
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,436 |
If it's an honest effort it is valid in and of itself, but any study is not the world. You would have to read other studies and not just stop at the one that says what you want to be true. Then you are building a closer model of wide reality. May as well start with this one, they could kill stuff... https://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/TLGR/tlgr.html
Last edited by 5thShock; 02/04/20. Reason: commas to dots
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,387
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,387 |
I have found Sunnow and Evans research on handguns and stopping power to be very interesting. Because Paladin press ceased operations at the end of 2019, the books are only available on the used book market. https://www.amazon.com/Handgun-Stopping-Power-Definitive-Study/dp/0873646533
In training to be an obedient master to my two labs
Shooting, fishing and hunting
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7,187
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7,187 |
Looking at just the data it shows the 40 S&W and 45 ACP still better than the 9mm. People were able to make more accurate hits with the 40 and 45 too. However there were more people shot with the 9mm than the other 2 combined.
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