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I have an old (1900) Model 94 Winchester, Octagon Barrel. The front dovetail needs to be little tighter. Any recommendations on accomplishing. I currently have piece of .002 brass shim stock under the sight, but it needs to be tighter
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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I always tried to modify the sight because it’s very difficult to tighten a dovetail without leaving some kind of mark. I used to TIG a quick pass across the bottom of the sight and refit with a file pretty often. In extreme cases I’ve soldered a shim onto the bottom of a sight and refit to correct a really oversized dovetail.
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SS, take a brass punch and tap the center of the bottom of dovetail, Try sight and repeat. My Dad and I have done it for years. powdr
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#1 what powdr said. I take a brass hammer and ping the dove tail until it is secured
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If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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That will only tighten the little tabs that bend down therefore only tightening contact in one little place. It’ll loosen up again.
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You can lay a 9/16 socket sideways across the dovetail and tap with hammer to tighten slightly. Between the ears you could dimple the flat with a punch to further tighten.
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The bottom section or the flat part in the picture. powdr
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The bottom section or the flat part in the picture. powdr Does that only rough up the bottom then forcing the sight higher? Will A brass punch even mark the steel?
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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SS,n if the brass punch does't do it use a steel one. Wren you peen the middle of the sight it's like closing your hand from a flat palm. powdr
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That will only tighten the little tabs that bend down therefore only tightening contact in one little place. It’ll loosen up again. Not necessarily - if done right.. That exact process is described in at least 2-3 of the gunsmith books I read more than 20 years ago.... BUT - it can depend a bit on the design of the sight too..
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69 Pro-Constitution. LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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If you use a filler to hammer against you can do an even job but it will mark up when you displace metal. Not exactly what I'd want on a 120 year old antique. Center punvhing the dovetail flat to raise divots sorta works if not too loose but not exactly the way I'd treat an antique! What The Kid said at the top, build up the sight. Not having TIG I've used Brownells low temp silver solder.
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Which explains a lot.
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Not having TIG I've used Brownells low temp silver solder. That is going to mark it also.Anything you do will have some negative effect.This rifle is not in the Collectors or Antique group. I believe tightening it up enough to keep it in place to get it sighted in and then a small bead of black epoxy is the solution I will use.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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Well, you'll see the repair if you drift off the sight and turn it upside down. Or maybe we're nio clear. The idea is to add a thin layer of material to the bottom of the sight to take up the slack . And the sight is still adjustable. You might even try that black epoxy though I wouldn't give you much for durability particularly if you let the barrel get hot.
After durability a proper repair should be as close to invisible as practible on any firearm. One difference between a gunamith and a blacksmith. Wish I still had a picture of a rifle that had a big machine screw welded on as a bolt handle. Perfectly functional and a nice welding job.
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Which explains a lot.
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Yes,I thought you meant adding the silvers solder to the base of the dovetail on the barrel.This particular sight is target sight with the barrel on it that different apertures are inserted in. It would be touch and go heating it up and not distorting that very thin barrel, while applying even low temp silver solder which I have.
I have rebarreled an old Fox Sterlingworth double using three different silver solder heats when I soldered the barrels into the receiver,then soldering the spacers between the barrels and finally soldering the rib on. I am not a commercial gunsmith, but I think that puts me a few steps above a blacksmith. Most of my gunsmithing is building stocks. However, at 76,I am still shoeing my own mules so I guess I rate that title too
I have added .002 brass shim stock under the sight to help and peened down the ears of the dove tail so they are flat with the barrel .That seems to have done the trick. This particular rifle, I think, was made with a loose dove tail.The original front blade sight has a # 6 screw drilled and tapped into it and to move the sight,you loosened the screw.
As for durability, many shotguns have the rib glued on,and I have never heard of one coming off. They get a lot hotter when shooting than this7/8ths wide octagonal barrel.You don't exactly rapid fire an 38-55 Lever gun.
Last edited by saddlesore; 02/19/20.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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Nothing wrong with blacksmithing, just a different tradewith different objectives. I remember watching my grandfather shoe a horse. Not quite like adjusting a good set trigger. I remember a book describing how to get stuck billets out of a barrel. If no gunsmith was available you could take it to the village blacksmith who would put the barrel in the forge until the lead melted. Now that would work but not exactly a finesse move.
On the sight you could go to soft solder, 60/40 electronics solder has a verylow melting point and is easy to work with. I use a hefty soldering gun rather than flame and I don't think you can overheat anything metal with it. Tradeoff is the softness, will deform if you keep adjusting windage. Never tried epoxy, Epoxy looses it's mechanical properties quickly with heat. Now it's pretty hard to heat a rib on a thin shotgun barrel but it's amazing how some people treat rifle barrel
So there's some alternatives, the right one is the one that gets you what you want.
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Which explains a lot.
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While not particularly sophisticated what I've done in the past is use a strip of clear plastic. Over the years I've kept pieces of blister packs, binder sheets and various pieces that could be used as shims. After I approximate about how much thickness I need and find an appropriate piece,I cut a strip that's maybe an inch long and the width of the bottom of the dovetail. Put it across the bottom of the dovetail and push the sight blade in. The plastic strip will move along with the blade as the blade goes in which is why the extra length. Trim off the sides. Not very visible. Basically, what you are already doing with the brass shim.
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SS, If I am understanding you correctly, the under surface of the dovetail below where you marked your arrows is not contacting your sight even with your shim which is between the horizontal surface and your sight.
Wouldn't a few layers of paint on the bottom of the sight provide enough upward pressure to engage those surfaces?
-OMotS
"If memory serves fails me..." Quote: ( unnamed) "been prtty deep in the cooler todaay " Television and radio are most effective when people question little and think even less.
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SS, If I am understanding you correctly, the under surface of the dovetail below where you marked your arrows is not contacting your sight even with your shim which is between the horizontal surface and your sight.Wouldn't a few layers of paint on the bottom of the sight provide enough upward pressure to engage those surfaces? I think the paint would peel off when pushing the sight in. I used .002 brass him stock and then peened down the top of the dove tail as it was pushed up a tad bit higher than the flat of the barrel.Then I carefully center punch a about 6 places on the flat of the dove tail. It seems to be fairly snug now. Now once I get it zeroed in with the bullet I will be using, I will put a small bead of back epoxy one each corner of the dove tail as a back up. Thanks to everyone for their ideas and responses.It helped me out a lot
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Ah glad you got it solved. Figured the paint was an easily reversible approach.. if it is so tight at the base it would scrape off paint than I must have mis-envisioned the out-of -tolerance source.
Happy Shooting.
-OMotS
"If memory serves fails me..." Quote: ( unnamed) "been prtty deep in the cooler todaay " Television and radio are most effective when people question little and think even less.
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