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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,231 Likes: 10
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,231 Likes: 10 |
I can’t say it better than He did:
Who is this that obscures my plans with words without knowledge? 3 Brace yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer me. 4 “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? Tell me, if you understand. 5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? 6 On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone— 7 while the morning stars sang together and all the angels[a] shouted for joy? 8 “Who shut up the sea behind doors when it burst forth from the womb, 9 when I made the clouds its garment and wrapped it in thick darkness, 10 when I fixed limits for it and set its doors and bars in place, 11 when I said, ‘This far you may come and no farther; here is where your proud waves halt’? 12 “Have you ever given orders to the morning, or shown the dawn its place, 13 that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? 14 The earth takes shape like clay under a seal; its features stand out like those of a garment. 15 The wicked are denied their light, and their upraised arm is broken. 16 “Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea or walked in the recesses of the deep? 17 Have the gates of death been shown to you? Have you seen the gates of the deepest darkness? 18 Have you comprehended the vast expanses of the earth? Tell me, if you know all this. 19 “What is the way to the abode of light? And where does darkness reside? 20 Can you take them to their places? Do you know the paths to their dwellings? 21 Surely you know, for you were already born! You have lived so many years! 22 “Have you entered the storehouses of the snow or seen the storehouses of the hail, 23 which I reserve for times of trouble, for days of war and battle? 24 What is the way to the place where the lightning is dispersed, or the place where the east winds are scattered over the earth? 25 Who cuts a channel for the torrents of rain, and a path for the thunderstorm, 26 to water a land where no one lives, an uninhabited desert, 27 to satisfy a desolate wasteland and make it sprout with grass? 28 Does the rain have a father? Who fathers the drops of dew? 29 From whose womb comes the ice? Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens 30 when the waters become hard as stone, when the surface of the deep is frozen? 31 “Can you bind the chains[b] of the Pleiades? Can you loosen Orion’s belt? 32 Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons[c] or lead out the Bear[d] with its cubs? 33 Do you know the laws of the heavens? Can you set up God’s[e] dominion over the earth? 34 “Can you raise your voice to the clouds and cover yourself with a flood of water? 35 Do you send the lightning bolts on their way? Do they report to you, ‘Here we are’? 36 Who gives the ibis wisdom[f] or gives the rooster understanding?[g] 37 Who has the wisdom to count the clouds? Who can tip over the water jars of the heavens 38 when the dust becomes hard and the clods of earth stick together? 39 “Do you hunt the prey for the lioness and satisfy the hunger of the lions 40 when they crouch in their dens or lie in wait in a thicket? 41 Who provides food for the raven when its young cry out to God and wander about for lack of food? You can come up with nothing better than a 41 verse Red Herring? If you really thought this through, I think you could do much better, but, I suspect you are not comfortable with where it would lead.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,727 Likes: 3 |
Mao and Stalin were tools in the hand of satan given permission by God to carry out His ultimate plan. Call God what you will, one day you can ask Him face to face your own questions in your own Snyde way. We’ll see how far that carries you.
I find it interesting how you are unable to critically evaluate the morality of your god sanctioning the misery wrought by Stalin and Mao, then, in the same breath, issue your threats of hellfire for those who would dare to question. That’s because you nor I have ZERO authority or anything to question God in His decisions. Carry on. The bible describes a set of values that we are told are dear to God, that God is the embodiment of these values.....yet we have God described breaking these very same values. That is the problem.
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 15,623 Likes: 10
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 15,623 Likes: 10 |
And the winner is......because my parents were. - - - No winner there - you are so very wrong. People who have had no contact with the bible or Christianity cannot become Christians, that can only happen through conditioning, conversion or people being drawn to the faith once it has been established....missionaries or evangelism at work, etc. I'll not debate your contention but, even if true, it does not support your declarative statement about "the winner".
NRA Member - Life, Benefactor, Patron
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 1,839 Likes: 4
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 1,839 Likes: 4 |
Do you think you would be a Christian if you were born in Saudi Arabia? Or India? Or Japan? Or Nepal? And not one direct answer to my questions. Do Christians believe that the other 3/4 of the world are going to hell? Yes. Is that direct?
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Joined: Sep 2008
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 15,623 Likes: 10 |
And the winner is......because my parents were. - - - No winner there - you are so very wrong. We are supposed to be that influence on our children. Proverbs 22:6 (NKJV) 6 Train up a child in the way he should go, And when he is old he will not depart from it. I agree with your comment about the parental role.
NRA Member - Life, Benefactor, Patron
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2011
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Could call it brainwashing
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2007
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That’s because you nor I have ZERO authority or anything to question God in His decisions.
Have you like many christians ever prayed to your God to change God given circumstances more to your liking? Those who truelly trust and believe in God's will be done, Have no reason to send prayers to try and influence Him. You either trust God already has a complete handle on things or you don't. Anyone praying to God to change what He has already dealt them, is effectively questioning His decisions.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 61,339 Likes: 35
Campfire Kahuna
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OP
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 61,339 Likes: 35 |
No Mauser, being a born again Christian is something only a born again Christian understands.
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o "May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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And that is this biggest problem with religious types such as yourself. It is your unwillingness to ask the hard questions, such as does a given claim of a supernatural being meet it's burden of proof. If it does, is this being moral and ethical, and if not, would it be moral and ethical for me to follow it?
I don’t need proof if I have faith. Thank you! This get right to the heart of the matter I think,at least for me. Some people have faith in a certain set of beliefs,in this instance Christianity, and some don't. The big question that I've been trying to figure out for a long time is if there is a choice to be made to have faith or not. So far I can't really see how there is. The trouble arises when those with faith try to convince those without using evidence, or those without try to convince those with faith that they have evidence to the contrary. Invariably it seems one side finds the evidence convincing, the other doesn't. Again, I can't see a choice there, it just is what it is. How does one choose to believe what they find unbelievable? How can one stop believing something that they absolutely believe? I don't really have good answers to these questions, but they are the reason I follow these topics.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2011
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Wouldn't teaching a child to believe in a pagan sect be considered child abuse?
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,954 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,954 Likes: 6 |
And the winner is......because my parents were. - - - No winner there - you are so very wrong. People who have had no contact with the bible or Christianity cannot become Christians, that can only happen through conditioning, conversion or people being drawn to the faith once it has been established....missionaries or evangelism at work, etc. You certainly live in a vacuum. There Muslims who became Christian because Jesus came to them. Read the book The Case For Miracles.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
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Joined: Sep 2011
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 61,339 Likes: 35 |
Well good folks, when the time is right for you to take that precious Hand, I hope you do.
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o "May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,399 Likes: 10 |
Spiritual matters are spiritually revealed. I couldn't believe either until it was revealed to me.
_______________________________________________________ An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,954 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,954 Likes: 6 |
And that is this biggest problem with religious types such as yourself. It is your unwillingness to ask the hard questions, such as does a given claim of a supernatural being meet it's burden of proof. If it does, is this being moral and ethical, and if not, would it be moral and ethical for me to follow it?
I don’t need proof if I have faith. Thank you! This get right to the heart of the matter I think,at least for me. Some people have faith in a certain set of beliefs,in this instance Christianity, and some don't. The big question that I've been trying to figure out for a long time is if there is a choice to be made to have faith or not. So far I can't really see how there is. The trouble arises when those with faith try to convince those without using evidence, or those without try to convince those with faith that they have evidence to the contrary. Invariably it seems one side finds the evidence convincing, the other doesn't. Again, I can't see a choice there, it just is what it is. How does one choose to believe what they find unbelievable? How can one stop believing something that they absolutely believe? I don't really have good answers to these questions, but they are the reason I follow these topics. Every one has faith. They exercise it by believing what they can't know. Some believe, by faith, God is. Others, by faith, believe He is not. At least one can point to information and say it can't happen with out Intelligence. The other uses blind faith and believes nothing made information.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Why are you unbelievers and atheists SO SO SO obsessed with Christianity?
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2007
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Spiritual matters are spiritually revealed. I couldn't believe either until it was revealed to me You mean you had a Paul type revelation? Do claims of spiritual revelation from Non Christians count?.. or is such only possible through being a Christian?
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,851
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,851 |
That’s because you nor I have ZERO authority or anything to question God in His decisions.
Have you like many christians ever prayed to your God to change God given circumstances more to your liking? Those who truelly trust and believe in God's will be done, Have no reason to send prayers to try and influence Him. You either trust God already has a complete handle on things or you don't. Anyone praying to God to change what He has already dealt them, is effectively questioning His decisions. look up the book of Isaiah in the Bible where the king Hezekia asked God for more life......and see what God did for him. That changed Gods thoughts on the matter for he was told his would die immediately and his life was prolonged another 15 years. Prayer changes things..
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2019
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I'm a follower of Christ, been aware of the spiritual part of me and others since I was old enough to have conscious thought. I never understood the 'born again in the spirit' claim by religion, when obviously we are born with the spirit. Anyway Christ's life, teachings, death, resurrection and the Holy spirit all make sense to what I felt at my earliest age.
It also doesn't negate other's spiritual awareness that never knew of Christ or put another name to God.
I'm a follower of Christ but not of religion with all it's exclusiveness, christian usually means a follower of a religion so I don't claim to be one.
Kent I have what many Christians would consider a warped view of spirituality. So it’s a bit of a comfort to find I am not alone. I can’t see the things I’ve seen & not be convinced there’s a higher power. Plus some of the best & most successful men I’ve known have been devout in their faith. Even if you could prove it was just a big fairy tale, there’s power in submitting ourselves to a higher power that guides our thoughts, words & actions 👍🏻 I think there may be a lot more with a like mind than you think.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2003
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Why are you unbelievers and atheists SO SO SO obsessed with Christianity? Not sure if you were talking to me, but I'm not an atheist and I find all kinds of things that humans do and beleive to be fascinating. Religion is very interesting to me,especially when you get to observe numerous different people from different backgrounds and life experiences try to explain why they beleive as they do and rationalize those beliefs. I'm not here to change anyone's mind, or start any fights.
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Posts: 5,809 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 5,809 Likes: 2 |
Why are you unbelievers and atheists SO SO SO obsessed with Christianity? Only because the respondants on this forum are christian, otherwise we non-believers are of the same view of all religions.
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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