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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
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Tell us again about the explosion that blew up a bunch of schiett that resulted in monkeys and you. The "Big Bang" was neither big, nor a bang. This argument is an appeal to your personal incredulity, which is another logical fallacy.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Why did god give me nipples? I'm a guy and don't really need them
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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What are my 'usual tactics'..? go ahead expose me!.. No need - it's already hanging out fully exposed all to see. And, who is laughing? Hmmm dont know, who's laughing?Is it one of your favorite story book characters...? seen lots of empty word blowhard Catholics in my time - you catholic by any chance? hmmmm - you said that YOU were laughing. Check your post. Laugh on - you may be laughing alone. And, you are fishing again with that question. If I were Roman Catholic, it would make no material difference in your case - same old, same old for you.
NRA Member - Life, Benefactor, Patron
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Why did god give me nipples? I'm a guy and don't really need them So you would ask high IQ questions. Yep, you're right. HE wasted them on you.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Why are you atheists so bent out of shape over a “Being” that to you doesn’t exist? . Your concern should be more about why Christians feel the need to Bend and mold a God into convenient versions of their own personal liking.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2008
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It's a ruthless Boss who throws people into Hell for their beliefs or their lack of conviction. Reason would say: convince the person, not torture them. Yes, among other important qualities - ruthless - you got it. Whose reason? Human reason, or the reason of the Almighty? Evening CCCC, I hope you are holding up well against the high NM winter and your crazy state legislature. As for human vs. supernatural reasoning, we known human reasoning exists, and so far, none of the theist here have prevented sufficient evidence supporting a position regarding the existence of a supernatural being capable of reasoning. Until such time, the only reasoning we know to have at our disposal is the human kind. Sure it's not perfect, but it's the best we have. Thanks for the nice greeting and good wishes, Even with high altitude storms, the worst thing about NM winter weather is the meeting of the legislature. AS, you posit that reasoning should be employed and that HUMAN reasoning says "convince the person, not torture them" as if those are the only alternatives/behaviors that may be involved/possible in such a matter.. Not at all the case. And, kindly explain, if you will, the reasons the behavior of the Almighty should or would be at all influenced by human reasoning. Could be seen as a ruthless question.
NRA Member - Life, Benefactor, Patron
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Campfire Outfitter
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I'm not the arrogant one abusing others because they question beliefs and point out problems, in other words, discussing the issues and not attacking an opponent. That is you and your group.
The context was wrong because the context described in genesis tells us that God placed two naive individuals, not having knowledge of good and evil, right and wrong, in the garden with a cunning Serpent in the full knowledge of what would happen....and it was only upon eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil that they knew what they had done.
That clearly is the context because that is the story line.
I haven’t been arrogant; I hope I haven’t come across as such. As a matter of fact if there were a few I could share a camp with from the fire here as I have some Antelope Sniper would be toward the top of the list. The problem with your “context was wrong” comment was that I never even tried to dispute your interpretation of the Genesis narrative. All I did was complete the story showing Gods gracious plan. Fair enough....but I would question the idea that it is a gracious plan to set up a naive couple to fail, knowing that they would fail, blaming them for their inadequacy and failure, then punishing not only them but the whole world for it. How this could be described as gracious is a mystery to me. In His grace He did not kill them and start over. I am sure they would agree. No, According your bible, he just flooded the entire world, murdering every human, except eight, so in this portrayal, he's not exactly gracious. Is the death penalty murder ?
One man with courage makes a majority....
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Why are you atheists so bent out of shape over a “Being” that to you doesn’t exist?
If our God is fictional, why are you and your atheist buds treating Him as real? You’re giving lots of time and attention to malign our very real sovereign God, who to you doesn’t even exist. How do these untrue beliefs affect the actions of the believers in this world and lead to sub-optimal outcomes? Prove they’re untrue. Where’s your evidence? How about you prove vampires, werewolves, leprechauns, unicorns, pegasi, orcs, trolls, and 12 headed hydra's don't exist? By your standard, you MUST believe all of these exist until you can PROVE they don't. This is why in logic, the burden of proof belongs to the party making the positive claim. You claim some supernatural being exists. Define it, and lets see what you have for evidence. Evidence doesn’t make it self-evident. Evidence depends upon interpretation and predisposition of evidence. We have predisposed dispositions that enable us to trust our cognitive abilities as sources of evidence. Parroting “not enough evidence” is a sham. You have been given plenty of evidence from the world God created. The world reflects the glory of God. Because of your smug intellectual arrogance, you have chosen to morally suppress that evidence. “The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them. For since the creation of the world, His invisible attributes are CLEARLY seen, being understood by the things that are made, even this eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.” Romans 1:18-20 Scripture says there are no real atheists, but atheists say there is no real God. Quoting the Bible to prove the Bible is called "Circular Reasoning". It's a logical fallacy. Claiming "The world reflect the glory of God", while providing no support for the claim is called a Bald Assertion, another logical fallacy. Requiring extraordinary evidence for extraordinary claims is not a "sham", it's a proper application of practical Skepticism. Now I ask you again to prove vampires, werewolves, leprechauns, unicorns, pegasi, orcs, trolls, and 12 headed hydra's don't exist. Nice deflection, but your position is intellectually indefensible. Disproving evidence for God is not proof there is no God. You claim there is no God, but there is no evidence (that there is no God); therefore, you believe that by faith (like believers). There is no proof of God’s nonexistence, thank God. Demanding proof of God would require that a person know all evidence of the existence of God and know ALL things. One would have to be in all places of our huge universe. If you could do that, A Sniper, YOU would be God. Even IF you had good, hard evidence, your scientism and intellectual ego would not allow you to accept it. Plus, your existing presuppositions are in opposition to the existence of our glorious supreme God. In order for you to accept ANY evidence, you have to change your presuppositional base that there is no God. And therein lies the problems with atheists. Quite the sad conundrum it is for you folks. You would need a major shift in your belief system and remove your presuppositional hostility and arrogance to any evidence for the existence of our Almighty God. The only true god in an atheist’s world is the atheist. P.S. You really must work on that smug intellectual arrogance. It gives atheists a bad rap.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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What are my 'usual tactics'..? go ahead expose me!.. And, you are fishing again with that question... Mosts folks here are not into guessing games So best you enlighten them to my 'usual tactics' whatever you imagine them to be.. Whats holding you back? So far you have only shown empty words and cowardice.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Why did god give me nipples? I'm a guy and don't really need them So you would ask high IQ questions. Yep, you're right. HE wasted them on you. So what do you use yours for? Hint: It's a link to evolution. Did god give us an appendix for purpose of destruction as he sees fit? He didn't get me because the doctors removed mine before peritonitis could set in.
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 15,611 Likes: 9 |
Why are you atheists so bent out of shape over a “Being” that to you doesn’t exist? . Your concern should be more about why Christians feel the need to Bend and mold a God into convenient versions of their own personal liking. One has to wonder how many Christians, on here and elsewhere, need or should attend to a person telling them what they should be concerned about with regard to their beliefs. How does one manage to arrogate to himself (or herself) the authority to dictate the concerns of a Christian? Is that a special quality held by non-Christians?
NRA Member - Life, Benefactor, Patron
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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What are my 'usual tactics'..? go ahead expose me!.. No need - it's already hanging out fully exposed all to see. And, who is laughing? Hmmm dont know, who's laughing?Is it one of your favorite story book characters...? seen lots of empty word blowhard Catholics in my time - you catholic by any chance? hmmmm - you said that YOU were laughing. Check your post. Laugh on - you may be laughing alone. And, you are fishing again with that question. If I were Roman Catholic, it would make no material difference in your case - same old, same old for you. It's a ruthless Boss who throws people into Hell for their beliefs or their lack of conviction. Reason would say: convince the person, not torture them. Yes, among other important qualities - ruthless - you got it. Whose reason? Human reason, or the reason of the Almighty? Reason is determined by information. If the 'Almighty' is said to have given a set of values, and is said to embody this set of values, yet is described acting contrary to the very same set of values....we have a problem, we are presented with a contradiction. Information seems to be only one of the determinants in human reasoning. You say "We have a problem, we are presented with a contradiction". Who is "we"? For whom is a contradiction a problem, and why? 'We' means us the readers. The text doesn't change. It remains the same for all readers/observers. The problems begin with interpretation. Some try to convert what the text clearly says and clearly means into something it clearly does not say or mean. Why? Because the actual meaning does not suit the needs of the faith of the believer. The believer is not looking at it objectively. The filter of faith screens whatever does not suit. Methinks you are way overly presumptuous with your sweeping definition of "we" - you simply don't get to sweep all others here into your leaky thinking/reasoning bucket. Me also thinks that in speaking for"we", you simply must have a mouse in your pocket.
NRA Member - Life, Benefactor, Patron
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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. One has to wonder how many Christians, on here and elsewhere, need or should attend to a person telling them what they should be concerned about with regard to their beliefs.
Christians make it their business to be God botherers the world over, Going about telling non christians that their Gods are false and that they need to find Jesus.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Joined: Nov 2011
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
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Why are you atheists so bent out of shape over a “Being” that to you doesn’t exist?
If our God is fictional, why are you and your atheist buds treating Him as real? You’re giving lots of time and attention to malign our very real sovereign God, who to you doesn’t even exist. How do these untrue beliefs affect the actions of the believers in this world and lead to sub-optimal outcomes? Prove they’re untrue. Where’s your evidence? How about you prove vampires, werewolves, leprechauns, unicorns, pegasi, orcs, trolls, and 12 headed hydra's don't exist? By your standard, you MUST believe all of these exist until you can PROVE they don't. This is why in logic, the burden of proof belongs to the party making the positive claim. You claim some supernatural being exists. Define it, and lets see what you have for evidence. Evidence doesn’t make it self-evident. Evidence depends upon interpretation and predisposition of evidence. We have predisposed dispositions that enable us to trust our cognitive abilities as sources of evidence. Parroting “not enough evidence” is a sham. You have been given plenty of evidence from the world God created. The world reflects the glory of God. Because of your smug intellectual arrogance, you have chosen to morally suppress that evidence. “The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them. For since the creation of the world, His invisible attributes are CLEARLY seen, being understood by the things that are made, even this eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.” Romans 1:18-20 Scripture says there are no real atheists, but atheists say there is no real God. Quoting the Bible to prove the Bible is called "Circular Reasoning". It's a logical fallacy. Claiming "The world reflect the glory of God", while providing no support for the claim is called a Bald Assertion, another logical fallacy. Requiring extraordinary evidence for extraordinary claims is not a "sham", it's a proper application of practical Skepticism. Now I ask you again to prove vampires, werewolves, leprechauns, unicorns, pegasi, orcs, trolls, and 12 headed hydra's don't exist. Nice deflection, but your position is intellectually indefensible. Disproving evidence for God is not proof there is no God. You claim there is no God, but there is no evidence (that there is no God); therefore, you believe that by faith (like believers). There is no proof of God’s nonexistence, thank God. Demanding proof of God would require that a person know all evidence of the existence of God and know ALL things. One would have to be in all places of our huge universe. If you could do that, A Sniper, YOU would be God. Even IF you had good, hard evidence, your scientism and intellectual ego would not allow you to accept it. Plus, your existing presuppositions are in opposition to the existence of our glorious supreme God. In order for you to accept ANY evidence, you have to change your presuppositional base that there is no God. And therein lies the problems with atheists. Quite the sad conundrum it is for you folks. You would need a major shift in your belief system and remove your presuppositional hostility and arrogance to any evidence for the existence of our Almighty God. The only true god in an atheist’s world is the atheist. P.S. You really must work on that smug intellectual arrogance. It gives atheists a bad rap. Nope. I claim that no theist has met their burden of proof. That's not the same think and claiming there is no god. Additionally, read my posts more carefully. I don't ask for proof. I ask for good evidence. Asking for "proof" can in and of itself be a "Red Herring" fallacy, because it's often used in a way that implies "proof beyond doubt". Heck even Richard Dawkins doesn't claim to know there is not god(s) beyond a shadow of a doubt. On a scale of 1 to 7 he claims to be 6.5 on his level of certainty that no god(s) exist. There's also a few dishonest tactics theist tend to use in conjunction with to what you are trying to do, i.e. "shifting the burden of proof". Next they will "move the goal posts", by changing their definition of god(s). Consequently it's important to carefully define any god before one can take up the anti-theist position that a specific god does not exist. As for the initial state of my presuppositions, once again you are totally wrong. My Journey began with 1st Peter 3:15: 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in you hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: Unfortunately I could find no evidence that met scrutiny. I was promised much but in the end, those who claimed to have evidence abandoned their claims of evidence and plead their case on the basis of Faith, which we see in this thread as well. But if you have some real evidence (notice I did not say "proof") let's here it. I'm open to hear what you believe and why you belief it, and why you belief your claims meet their burden of proof.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
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How many christians have we thrown to the lions by now? None. But we have one we are trying to save. It appears he really could use some professional help. Maybe try treating him courteously.
_______________________________________________________ An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
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Campfire Outfitter
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The thread was about Christian's, not skeptics, dumbass. Such a good Christian response. You are such a good representation of the results of believing in your god. Matthew 5:22 ......Whosoever shall say, Thou fool shall be in danger of hellfire. Straight from the mouth of Yeshua. The thing that strikes me most about this thread is how the prophet's followers and friends have been giving him a bad name for centuries. Or at least casting him a bad light that he doesn't deserve. I have friends that take issue when I say I believe Yeshua was who he said he was and that his message was true. My tactic is to not alienate them or tell them they are stupid. Any"Christian" would just about have to admit that the nominal Christian church has created enough mayhem and depravity to strip it completely of respectability.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you." Hebrew Roots Judaizer
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Why are you atheists so bent out of shape over a “Being” that to you doesn’t exist? . Your concern should be more about why Christians feel the need to Bend and mold a God into convenient versions of their own personal liking. One has to wonder how many Christians, on here and elsewhere, need or should attend to a person telling them what they should be concerned about with regard to their beliefs. How does one manage to arrogate to himself (or herself) the authority to dictate the concerns of a Christian? Is that a special quality held by non-Christians? They should be as skeptical about their unbelief.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,211 Likes: 9 |
Why are you atheists so bent out of shape over a “Being” that to you doesn’t exist? . Your concern should be more about why Christians feel the need to Bend and mold a God into convenient versions of their own personal liking. One has to wonder how many Christians, on here and elsewhere, need or should attend to a person telling them what they should be concerned about with regard to their beliefs. How does one manage to arrogate to himself (or herself) the authority to dictate the concerns of a Christian? Is that a special quality held by non-Christians? Not in this country. That's covered under "Congress shall make no law regarding the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." The only power anyone should have over your deeply held foundational beliefs is that of their reason.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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. One has to wonder how many Christians, on here and elsewhere, need or should attend to a person telling them what they should be concerned about with regard to their beliefs.
Christians find it their business to be God botherers the world over, Going about telling non christians that their Gods are false and that they need to find Jesus. I hope this does not surprise you. It is every true Christians desire that everyone will find Christ
One man with courage makes a majority....
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire Outfitter
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Hilarious when we have members of a reknown God bothering faith, that made it a global mission of brainwashing folks into their Beliefs... Now taking exception to being told something. CCCC needs to think before he types. Albeit a tall order for CF christians. I hope this does not surprise you. It is every true Christians desire that everyone will find Christ
No it comes as no surprise at all, that primitive cult mindsets try to justify their brainwashing tactics and schemes.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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