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Joined: Oct 2011
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Didn't know about the glove but in the video I immediately saw the salts and knew what they were.
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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Didn't know about the glove but in the video I immediately saw the salts and knew what they were. Same here. Obvious.
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2003
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Love boxing history and always felt for Cooper who came so close. Guessing the Brits have a similar affection for Tyson Fury these days. . Does seem to me that Ali fought and defeated more title worthy opponents than anyone by a wide margin. The what -ifs are natural and it is too bad we can't rearrange time to witness him fight Max Baer (fought Joe Lewis with a broken hand) or Tyson or Marciano.
Certainly no authority but I don't think any of them beat Tyson in his prime.
When a country is well governed, poverty and a mean condition are something to be ashamed of. When a country is ill governed, riches and honors are something to be ashamed of
. Confucius
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Joined: Sep 2008
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2008
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I laugh when folks bring up some of the old boxers and make statements sound like absolute facts about them. Just on size, weight, speed and the ability to take a punch, Ali was the greatest. He, like Ted Williams (the greatest in his field) spent the prime of their careers out of their profession. That said, it is a reasonable theory Cooper could have won that fight had that hook landed a minute or even thirty seconds earlier. Also remember Ali took SOLID punchers from the likes of Frazier and Foreman, without question, the hardest puncher in boxing history. I certainly agree with the comments about Ted Williams - no question. Not so with Ali - he was extremely talented but had some key weaknesses and even the video with Henry Cooper shows one of Ali's weaknesses. Never "the greatest" - a myth - there have been much greater boxers than Ali and their records prove that when compared to his. I sure do agree with what has been posted about Carmen Basilio - seem to remember that he was an onion farmer up in central NY state - or from an onion farming area. Skilled and tough fighter and a very nice man.
NRA Member - Life, Benefactor, Patron
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
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I laugh when folks bring up some of the old boxers and make statements sound like absolute facts about them. Just on size, weight, speed and the ability to take a punch, Ali was the greatest. He, like Ted Williams (the greatest in his field) spent the prime of their careers out of their profession. That said, it is a reasonable theory Cooper could have won that fight had that hook landed a minute or even thirty seconds earlier. Also remember Ali took SOLID punchers from the likes of Frazier and Foreman, without question, the hardest puncher in boxing history. I certainly agree with the comments about Ted Williams - no question. Not so with Ali - he was extremely talented but had some key weaknesses and even the video with Henry Cooper shows one of Ali's weaknesses. Never "the greatest" - a myth - there have been much greater boxers than Ali and their records prove that when compared to his. I sure do agree with what has been posted about Carmen Basilio - seem to remember that he was an onion farmer up in central NY state - or from an onion farming area. Skilled and tough fighter and a very nice man. Name one I will give you he was not a powerful puncher (that's why most of his wins were either TKOs or decisions), but otherwise, nobody came close in boxing ability and when you consider his prime years were robbed, yeah, he's pretty much "the greatest"
Last edited by jorgeI; 02/28/20.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
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Love boxing history and always felt for Cooper who came so close. Guessing the Brits have a similar affection for Tyson Fury these days. . Does seem to me that Ali fought and defeated more title worthy opponents than anyone by a wide margin. The what -ifs are natural and it is too bad we can't rearrange time to witness him fight Max Baer (fought Joe Lewis with a broken hand) or Tyson or Marciano.
Certainly no authority but I don't think any of them beat Tyson in his prime. Marciano in his prime would have eaten Tyson's lunch.
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Joined: Sep 2008
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 15,585 Likes: 8 |
I laugh when folks bring up some of the old boxers and make statements sound like absolute facts about them. Just on size, weight, speed and the ability to take a punch, Ali was the greatest. He, like Ted Williams (the greatest in his field) spent the prime of their careers out of their profession. That said, it is a reasonable theory Cooper could have won that fight had that hook landed a minute or even thirty seconds earlier. Also remember Ali took SOLID punchers from the likes of Frazier and Foreman, without question, the hardest puncher in boxing history. I certainly agree with the comments about Ted Williams - no question. Not so with Ali - he was extremely talented but had some key weaknesses and even the video with Henry Cooper shows one of Ali's weaknesses. Never "the greatest" - a myth - there have been much greater boxers than Ali and their records prove that when compared to his. I sure do agree with what has been posted about Carmen Basilio - seem to remember that he was an onion farmer up in central NY state - or from an onion farming area. Skilled and tough fighter and a very nice man. Name one I will give you he was not a powerful puncher (that's why most of his wins were either TKOs or decisions), but otherwise, nobody came close in boxing ability and when you consider his prime years were robbed, yeah, he's pretty much "the greatest" I appreciate your analysis and take on Ali, and your comments about high boxing skills. But to be a "greatest" heavyweight a guy has to punch hard and deep to deal with the other heavies - and Ali could not do that. If he was 'robbed' of his best years, it was a robbery he made of himself. When first he fought again at age 29 (still prime for a heavyweight in my opinion), he fell to Joe Frazier and that deep left hook - rather like the Cooper hook I'm not partial to Mayweather but he fought all comers and his record says great. There are others as well. Conversely, Ted Williams heeded the call and went off to fly warplanes at war at least twice - maybe thrice -
NRA Member - Life, Benefactor, Patron
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I found this on Quora. An analysis (ok- opinoin) of how fights might have gone between Ali and other famous fighters. Fun read and seems fairly well thought out. Ali vs....most of themEnjoy
Last edited by kenjs1; 02/28/20.
When a country is well governed, poverty and a mean condition are something to be ashamed of. When a country is ill governed, riches and honors are something to be ashamed of
. Confucius
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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TRH- you got me curious so I did some digging and got to enjoy great clips of Marciano fights.
I read part of an interview with trainer Don Turner who was asked about Ernie Shavers. Shavers was universally considered the hardest puncher of the ...hate to call it 'modern' but lets say last half of the 20th century. Harder puncher than even Foreman by those who fought both. Turner says he felt Dempsey was an even harder puncher than Shavers. What caught my eye watching those Marciano bouts is the absolute daze of his opponents after being floored by him. Hard to determine whether they had lost the ability to rise to their feet or were questioning the wisdom of doing so. Really defines having the fight knocked out of them.
When a country is well governed, poverty and a mean condition are something to be ashamed of. When a country is ill governed, riches and honors are something to be ashamed of
. Confucius
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