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I read the history of the gospels from reputable academic sources. You should try it.
Reputable academic sources, according to archiologists, accept ancient documents at face value; except for those with prejudice against the Bible.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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I read the history of the gospels from reputable academic sources. You should try it.
Reputable academic sources, according to archiologists, accept ancient documents at face value; except for those with prejudice against the Bible. Uncovering actual history requires rigorous investigation, faith does not. Faith allows one to believe whatever happens to be appealing.
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If its clearly stated, how come no one can see it but you? Ok, I'll play: ''But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.“ (Matthew 24: 25-34) “Then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven. Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. Even so, you too, when you see these things happening, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place…“ (Mark 13:26-30) You have a tough time with context. The generation that experiences the tribulation will not pass before Jesus returns. That is a rather inventive interpretation, given that the words clearly state that this generation, some of those standing before Jesus, will be alive to witness the promised return in power as described. Which is precisely what the first generation of Christians believed.
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If its clearly stated, how come no one can see it but you? Ok, I'll play: ''But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.“ (Matthew 24: 25-34) “Then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven. Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. Even so, you too, when you see these things happening, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place…“ (Mark 13:26-30) You have a tough time with context. The generation that experiences the tribulation will not pass before Jesus returns. Rich, That's perhaps your most absurd apologetic to date. I don't think that rather than reading what the words actually say,, he is seeing what he wants the words to say.
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Campfire Ranger
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I read the history of the gospels from reputable academic sources. You should try it.
Reputable academic sources, according to archiologists, accept ancient documents at face value; except for those with prejudice against the Bible. Uncovering actual history requires rigorous investigation, faith does not. Faith allows one to believe whatever happens to be appealing. You are living proof of your post!
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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If its clearly stated, how come no one can see it but you? Ok, I'll play: ''But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.“ (Matthew 24: 25-34) “Then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven. Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. Even so, you too, when you see these things happening, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place…“ (Mark 13:26-30) You have a tough time with context. The generation that experiences the tribulation will not pass before Jesus returns. That is a rather inventive interpretation, given that the words clearly state that this generation, some of those standing before Jesus, will be alive to witness the promised return in power as described. Which is precisely what the first generation of Christians believed. Because they didn't get it any better than you does not make your interpretation correct.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Campfire Oracle
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I will say, you gentleman have a zeal for religion. Hahahaha. Very perceptive.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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If its clearly stated, how come no one can see it but you? Ok, I'll play: ''But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.“ (Matthew 24: 25-34) “Then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven. Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. Even so, you too, when you see these things happening, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place…“ (Mark 13:26-30) You have a tough time with context. The generation that experiences the tribulation will not pass before Jesus returns. That is a rather inventive interpretation, given that the words clearly state that this generation, some of those standing before Jesus, will be alive to witness the promised return in power as described. Which is precisely what the first generation of Christians believed. Because they didn't get it any better than you does not make your interpretation correct. It's not my interpretation. It is what the words and verses say. The verses describe an event and give the timeline for when that event is to happen.....within the lifetime of those standing there. Simple as that. An event is described and a timeline given.
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Campfire Ranger
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I will say, you gentleman have a zeal for religion. Hahahaha. Very perceptive. It is interesting. Perhaps Rick would consider a new forum, “Fire Fundies” for fundamentalists of ALL sorts?
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I will say, you gentleman have a zeal for religion. Hahahaha. Very perceptive. It is interesting. Perhaps Rick would consider a new forum, “Fire Fundies” for fundamentalists of ALL sorts? This is a discussion forum. We are discussing religion and faith, but the problem is, one side is doing it's best to shut down discussion. If someone does not want to discuss religion and faith, they can simply abstain.
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I don't mean to be argumentative but Hitler was a Catholic, not an atheist. He said so many times. And he just didn't murder all those people by himself. He had a lot of help, mostly from various Christians, if they even knew what Christianity was.
Here's the stuff I don't understand.
If God was an all-powerful god, creator of all the universe, etc., why would he torture his own son to death to remove the sins of he world anyway. Seems very evil and cruel. He just could have snapped his fingers instead. Ok, ok, "God moves in mysterious ways." If that's true, why does anyone call God a loving god?
And if the crucifixion is such a big deal, what about the tens of thousands of other people that the Romans crucified and otherwise murdered? Why was that?
And if the purpose was to "take away the sin of the world," why did the sins apparently go on just as much as before? Consider, for example, the sack of Rome in 1527 AD and torturing civilians to death. The German Landsknecht (Protestants) teamed up with Catholics from Spain to do that.
And why did the authors of the New Testament (Acts, etc.) repeatedly claim that the second coming would be in their own lifetimes? It wasn't, so the Bible cannot be entirely inerrant.
Not accusing anyone of hacking or trying to dis your beliefs, but these inconsistencies bother me about Christian theology. Can anyone explain them? I can try. Christians worship a Triune God. That means He is made up of 3 parts: God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Spirit. There was a huge amount of sin in the world , always has been and always will be until He returns and it will be dealt with then. So God needed a way to cover up the sin by giving people something simple to believe in. In the past with the Jews, God allowed them to cover their sin with sacrifices. Different sins required different sacrifices with the most serious ones requiring a blood offering from doves, lambs and bulls, to name a few. They had to be without spot or blemish. Jesus had no sin, and He would be the sacrifice. Believing in Him earned Grace from the Father and the sin was covered. Some people find that belief hard, others don't. One thing is, is free. So God the Son became flesh. Flesh He would surrender to the cross and show those what He was prepared to do to win our salvation from sin. The evil and cruel was not due to God but to mankind who put Christ on that cross. God loved us so much He was ready to suffer and die as a total innocent, so we might live with Him forever. Sorry I couldn't handle that one with a few words. I've pared it down about as much as I could. There are many things worth knowing to understand how God laid this all out. As to why the Romans crucified people, it was the worst death they knew of and did that to keep people in line. Humans are evil when left to do whatever they will. It was to take away the sins of the world, but the way it was done was to blot them out. God knew humans were incapable of never sinning again. But by believing in Jesus and His sacrifice on the cross as the blood covering for your sins and you can go through life essentially sinless as far as God is concerned. You will still sin. We all do and will, but the blood of Christ covers that sin so it can no longer been seen by God. The Apostles, authors of the New Testament, believed Jesus was coming quickly because Jesus said he was. Thing was, they operated from the standpoint of time in this world and He operated in Eternity in Heaven. Pretty well stated Brother Rick. Amen! For once, I have nothing substantial to add. 
"Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." (Prov 4:23)
Brother Keith
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Campfire Outfitter
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If its clearly stated, how come no
one can see it but you? Oh thats easy, DBT has simply demonstrated a complete outsider can crack the Bible code. A capability supposedly only meant for innitiation process spirit channeling pesher cult christians... which really takes the shine off the marketing hype/ facade of a christian being exclusive part of an inner circle arcane knowledge brotherhood. rather than reading what the words actually say,, he is seeing what he wants the words to say. rather sure Ringo has since read and understood the peer review of Mr.Greenleafs 'Gospels as legal evidence' by a fellow theologian lawyer. .. A subject Ringo seems not to want to talk about anymore.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Like that small mustard seed, that grows large with time, I'll hope, and pray the good folks that don't believe now will come to the Lord in time. As our good brother Keith said, "Hell ain;t half full yet, and I'll think the room in Heaven is plentiful. I will have to admit, when we Bless the scoffers it makes the hair stand up on the back of their necks.  Next?
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
"May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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The are ethical problems with heaven and hell theology.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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The only problem I see is I hope my road map guides me to the Place I want to go.
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
"May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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Campfire Ranger
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The are ethical problems with heaven and hell theology. There are bigger problems with calling into question the means of a sovereign & righteous God too, but since you think it all an inane fairytale it’s baffling why you’d continue the conversation. Me thinks you doth protest too much...
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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One more time. If we must, brag on the Cross. ![[Linked Image from calvaryoly.com]](https://www.calvaryoly.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/cross-671379_1920-1024x768.jpg)
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
"May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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The are ethical problems with heaven and hell theology. There are bigger problems with calling into question the means of a sovereign & righteous God too, but since you think it all an inane fairytale it’s baffling why you’d continue the conversation. Me thinks you doth protest too much... Yet you are the one doing the protesting. As for calling into question the righteousness or sovereignty of God...It first has to be established that a God exists. In regard to righteousness of the God of the bible, that can be examined by reading what the bible says about its God.
Last edited by DBT; 02/28/20.
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Campfire Regular
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[/quote]
As for calling into question the righteousness or sovereignty of God...It first has to be established that a God exists.
In regard to righteousness of the God of the bible, that can be examined by reading what the bible says about its God.[/quote]
God exist?....it's a fifty fifty chance....either God is or God is not...I do believe God does exist because when I die and then find out there really is something on the other side of the grave, whew, glory to God, as I tried to do the best I could all my life.
Illegitimi non carborundum
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God exist?....it's a fifty fifty chance....either God is or God is not...I do believe God does exist because when I die and then find out there really is something on the other side of the grave, whew, glory to God, as I tried to do the best I could all my life.
How do you calculate 50/50 chance? And why the God of the bible rather than Brahman the creative principle of Hinduism, for example? Isn't it 50/50 between those two options without even considering any number of other possibilities?
Last edited by DBT; 02/28/20.
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