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One that gets used!!!


Mike


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Let us not forget excellent light weight revolvers once made by Colt. Six-shot Agent comes to mind. With current prices for second-hand pre-lock, pre-MIM S&W revolvers certain Colts are now worthy competition for them.

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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by Cariboujack
https://www.swatmag.com/article/j-frame ... uide-life/

Interesting article in SWAT magazine; Check it out.

Airweight snub is an overwhelming choice of many habitual carriers, however, the J Frame requires adjustments in mindset to offset its limitations.

Lately, against the counsel of many of my more appropriately armed friends, I have taken to carrying a Smith & Wesson Model 642 Airweight .38 revolver. I have my reasons, as undoubtedly do the many legions of permit holders and off duty personnel who slip the snub into a pocket and sally forth. I carry the J Frame having trained with it hard and understanding its limitations.

Carrying the 642 caused me to re-evaluate my personal tactics, training, and attitude. In doing so I had to develop a “J Frame Mindset.” Years ago I made certain assumptions based upon the perceived effectiveness of what I was carrying. Having abandoned many of those notions while carrying the J, I realized that the new mindset was just as applicable to better weaponry. After discussing this with peers who carry service pistols exclusively, it occurred to me that these tenets might apply just as well to them.
Diminutive sights, light weight, and abbreviated grip demand that the shooter train hard with the snubbie to ensure the best possible hits. Realistic training allows the shooter to establish what is—and what isn’t—possible out of the platform.

AVOIDANCE
Having a five-shot .38 on board does not bestow special powers nor equip me to seek trouble and meddle in iffy situations. I can react to trouble that finds me despite my best attempts to escape it. My personal duty requires only that I protect my family and self.

However, it is understood that LE professionals have additional responsibilities. For them, avoidance is likely more geared to not getting overcommitted and gaining back up before getting in too deep. I would submit that a pistol of any caliber and capacity is not the best answer when seeking to purposefully engage predators. They make things for that—rifles, shotguns, several other good guys in tow, and preferably close air support.

IT WON’T WORK!
I do not expect that launching a Gold Dot or five is going to bring hostilities to a screeching halt and send the brigands in full retreat. I fully expect that the introduction of the J will only 1) allow me to break contact and extricate myself from a mess I didn’t see coming and avoid, or 2) soften the threat, who must then be violently dealt with using any and all means. I fully anticipate having to immediately transition to strikes or weapons of opportunity once the fight is joined. Have single round-nosed lead .38 bullets ended fights? You bet. But many more gunfights (even with the latest major caliber bullets launched from the greatest of high capacity pistols) turn into nasty groundfights.

Having a pistol does not mean that the fight gets to be a duel, only that it may start that way. I do not intend to have a pregnant pause after my payload is delivered—I train to either be making tracks or closing with and destroying the threat as the situation warrants. This means incorporating a great deal of aggression into the response and having a passable capability to attack, whether that means ramming the 1 7/8-inch barrel into an eye socket or hammer fisting the throat.

It may get dirty, but mentally I accept that. A good many pistoleros maintain a mental image that the pistol will conduct all hostilities by proxy at a comfortable seven to ten yards and are not mentally prepared for the possibility that it won’t work. Which leads to…

I PROBABLY WON’T GET TO RELOAD
The fight likely began with me on the wrong side of the reaction cycle, so reloading smoothly in the midst of the active violence is not to be expected. The stats just don’t support it. Sure, I train at it. Even using strong and support hand only. But I imagine that the chances to reload in the situations where I would be shooting in the first place are slim.

The Bianchi “Speed” strips I carry—while flat and easy to carry—are anything but speedy, requiring the alignment and stripping off of two rounds/cylinder holes at a time. This is why many J Frame aficionados train to only reload with four rounds, figuring that it is more efficient to be back in the fight with four on tap, than to extend the out of battery time by 33 percent to gain one round. However, even were I carrying an auto, the chances of executing that 1.5-second emergency reload in a real fight just don’t match up to the time/space evaluations of many personal defense environments. I mentally intend to get the job done with what’s in the weapon or go to plan B or C. And since I only have five pills…

MAKE EVERY SHOT COUNT
Wide employment of high-capacity pistols with respectable power has led some to accept weak accuracy and wasteful tactics. The capacity limitations and marginal energy inherent to the J Frame demand that I shoot well. To do this I must train to know exactly what I can and can’t accomplish with the weapon. For me, that equals about 25 yards before hits get into the “get closer or E&E” mode.

The addition of Crimson Trace Lasergrips to the Airweight is nearly mandatory, increasing recoil control, adding useful training value in mastering the double-action trigger in dry fire, and adding confidence to shot placement in situations where the marginal sights are difficult to acquire.

The adage that a snubbie is an expert’s weapon means that considerable training effort must be applied for it to be useful. The limited energy means I must train to quickly deliver up to the entire cylinder to the best target areas of a single threat or quickly divide the shots to the very best soft spots available on multiples. The limited capacity encourages me very strongly to avoid multiple threat scenarios, which leads to where this discussion began.

I feel that the J Frame mentality has better prepared me to protect those who depend on me. A frank and honest evaluation of your personal mission role, environment and available weapons may lead to a similar change in mentality and guide appropriate changes in training and behavior.

Seems all reasonable. I occasionally carry an Airweight J-Frame .38, but it's usually because it's cold out, and I'm wearing a long winter coat, making access to my IWB Glock slow, so I toss the J-Frame in the coat pocket. The Glock then becomes the backup.

But the author makes good sense.

This is the one that's kept loaded and on standby to stick in a coat pocket.

[Linked Image]



I have a model 38 as well.....great little BUG!


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I was a Police Officer in the 14th largest city in the US for 33 years until my retirement in 2018. For a whole bunch of that time I carried an S&W 649 as a back up and off duty gun. When I retired, I bought an S&W 642 Airweight snubby because it's much lighter. I still find myself carrying my Glock 43 9mm with an 8 round mag in my pocket about 95% of the time. Just as easy to conceal, and way faster to reload. A snubby can sure save your life. This day and age a small powerful auto just feels like a better choice for my needs.

Ron


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I recently picked up a old Colt detective special made in 1971 to carry as my backup.

I like the idea of six rounds instead of five.

My Wife packs a S&W airweight chiefs special.

Sorry, I can't do pictures.

Virgil B.

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Detective Specials are awesome. I carried one EDC for years.

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It is good to see that I'm not the only one who thinks that 5 is enough though when I asked the group that question a while back, the consensus was that it wasn't. Okay, I'm on the waiting list to get myself an alloy CZ 75 D PCR Compact, but that one is still 27.5 ounces and my favorite J-frame pre-lock .38 Special + P 337PD only weighs 9 ounces. I'm not a leo looking for trouble, just a ccw guy trying to avoid it and that tiny J-frame in a pocket or ankle holster sure beats having nothing. Where I go currently I'm way more likely to encounter a cottonmouth snake than a bad guy and a CCI shot load or a Hornady PD + P load could work in either scenario.


My other auto is a .45

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Gave my daughter my S&W Airweight, this is my backup.

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I'd like to find another 317 snubbie .....22LR 8 shot.
My niece claimed mine and I miss it. LGS only have the longer barrelled version.

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I carry a 360pd in 357 mag for hiking. EZ to carry but painful to shoot:

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https://imgur.com/a/YRONcpS

One at my front door. One in my wife’s car. One in her purse, and one in my pocket. And a spare. They all are on the job. Hasbeen


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Originally Posted by jds44
Originally Posted by SS336
I don't often carry a snubby but when I do... grin

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]photo free upload


I like that holster! What make/model is it?

That holster is poorly made - look at the stitch line on it forward of the cylinder. I can do better, if you're interested.

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Originally Posted by Slavek
Let us not forget excellent light weight revolvers once made by Colt. Six-shot Agent comes to mind. With current prices for second-hand pre-lock, pre-MIM S&W revolvers certain Colts are now worthy competition for them.

And Taurus also makes a lightweight concealed-hammer 6-shot revolver, the 856CH: https://www.taurususa.com/firearms/revolvers/856ch/

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I carry a +P rated 38 Spcl S&W 649-2 (1 7/8" bbl ) with Speigel boot grips, or a 3" full-lug S&W model 60-4 38 Spcl with factory rubber combat grips. Great revolvers. These J-frames are more accurate than you think.

Load is a hard-cast SOLID-base 148 grain wadcutter over 3.5 grains Bullseye (Lee tumble lube DEWC or H&G #50 ).

Good article by Ed Harris about full-charge double-ended hard-cast wadcutters in the 38 special :
https://www.grantcunningham.com/2011/11/ed-harris-revisiting-the-full-charge-wadcutter/


"Behavior accepted is behavior repeated."

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Originally Posted by buttstock
I carry a +P rated 38 Spcl S&W 649-2 (1 7/8" bbl ) with Speigel boot grips, or a 3" full-lug S&W model 60-4 38 Spcl with factory rubber combat grips. Great revolvers. These J-frames are more accurate than you think.

Load is a hard-cast SOLID-base 148 grain wadcutter over 3.5 grains Bullseye (Lee tumble lube DEWC or H&G #50 ).

Good article by Ed Harris about full-charge double-ended hard-cast wadcutters in the 38 special :
https://www.grantcunningham.com/2011/11/ed-harris-revisiting-the-full-charge-wadcutter/

I have some Buffalo Bore loads of full power, hard cast, 150 grain wadcutters.

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I have a 36 "Flat Latch" that I carry sometimes, which I trained on quite a lot in another lifetime. I shoot the 36 really well, and in single action mode I can hit pretty keen out to 25-30 yards. I think carrying any type weapon that a person is used to and shoots well, makes better sense than opting for a pistol just because it holds more rounds that they don't shoot as well. I never feel under gunned with a .38 special and the right ammo.

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The cool factor is important when deciding what to carry.
Bob

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Originally Posted by RGK
The cool factor is important when deciding what to carry.
Bob

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That's really nice.

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My 442 is my most carried gun I own. I use a Galco Hornet carried crossdraw.
IMO perfect for all concealable situations. Standing, sitting, reaching, bending over.

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Triggernosis, I said up front that was the 2nd holster he made. That was several years ago. Maybe you should have gone to his website and look at what he does now. He makes a good product at a fair price, maybe not as good as yours, but pretty good and has a very good reputation in the area. I know it's easier to run down something than actually spend the time checking it out. I haven't seen your products I can't comment.

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