Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles JES Work... Bore Scope Images.....Revealing

A few comments, coming from somebody who has owned a high-quality borescope for over 15 years, and looked through at least 100 barrels a year with it since:

1) Nobody can tell whether a barrel will shoot well from a borescope--even if it's pitted all the way through.

2) Tiny little "defects" are REALLY common in many great-shooting barrels.

3) "Fire-lapping" will not take out tiny defects like those shown in the photos, unless they're pretty close to the chamber. And even if it does, there's no reason the barrel will shoot better. In fact it may shoot worse.

4) Same deal as (3) with so-called "breaking-in" a barrel by shooting/cleaning repeatedly.

5) ALL rebored barrels are cut-rifled. Nobody has found any other way to do it.

6) Sounds like a lot of folks here want to start another schidt-storm over something they have VERY little experience with.

I absolutely disagree with #6.

Just observations, curiosity and very civil comments from people who want learn.
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Yep, me too. I REALLY appreciate Mule Deer's comments (at least 1-5) because I was very leery of the recommendations to fire lap. I didn't think it was indicated at all here. I have no reason to suspect my two new barrels are not going to shoot great, and I'll post the results here, when I get them, to provide more data.
To recap this thread, SU35 had some seemingly non-typical "potholes" in his newly rebored barrel. So when my two new (and first ever) JES rebores arrived, I borrowed my buddy's borescope to do my (first ever) bore inspection. And based on my big sample size of TWO (OK, maybe I don't TOTALLY disagree with comment #6) it does look like SU35's bore might be a bit aberrant. I did this not to start a "schidt-storm", but to provide SU35 with something with which to compare his new barrel. When I saw a dramatic improvement in the appearance of my .338 barrel after nothing but a thorough cleaning, I posted that too, again as kind of a "it ain't so bad" encouragement.
I have not noted any particular pontificating here but maybe I'm not as discerning as some. Seems like a nice civil thread.

Cheers.
Rex

Not to argue but conventional lapping would improve the looks of those inclusions and subsequent fubar cuts. It may or may not improve how it shoots or reduce fouling, but it could. If done properly it is not likely to reduce accuracy but could make it necessary to re-cut the throat lead and crown. Typically you shorten a barrel by at least an inch and then re-crown after lapping. I wouldn't do this unless it shot really badly and then I would see if Jes could bore it out to .375 or larger.

Just shoot the damn thing and if it fouls use Dyna Bore Coat and shoot it some more.

As I've said to other respondents, PLEASE be clear on to whom you are replying, the original pictures posted by SU35, or the "for reference" pictures I posted in response. I'm not a bit worried about my barrels, so I don't need any more suggestions on how I should proceed.. I'll leave it to SU35 to chime in if he feels the need for any further guidance. Nor could I imagine any way one would set a barrel back at least an inch as a component of a lap job. That sounds really excessive. But what do I know?

Cheers to all,
Rex

I'm on the learning curve with bore scopes and have a no harm no foul outlook on all this.

I had a great conversation with Jesse about the above photos and this has been a learning experience for me.

No storm here.

This was a call out thread basicly

I KNOW countless shooters can post similar pics from rifles Jesse rebored. I haven't even worked a load yet. Pretty excited to see what she'll do!

No, it was not. Sorry it was taken that way.

I'm not 100% sure I know what a "call out thread" is but if you mean you think it was an attempt by a customer to disparage the work of his "vendor", I disagree. SU35 saw some weird stuff in his rebore. He posted pics so that other customers could compare what they had experienced. ONE other customer (me) responded with some pics that suggested (with no statistical validity) that maybe SU35's barrel might actually be kind of unusual. SU35 has subsequently talked to Jesse about it and it seems they are handling it just fine. We are standing by in rapt anticipation for the actual range results which will be the ultimate arbiter of [bleep] vs. shinola.
I think SU35 has been a total gentleman in this whole thread and has never disparaged JES' work.

That's about it,
Rex

A call out thread.....

What did he tell you?

UNCLE
thank you for your contribution.

I was just commenting in general that while a borescope can be an interesting tool, its role has to be kept in perspective. Certainly one of its roles is to diagnose a barrel that is acting wonky after a high quantity of quality attempts to make it shoot, not as a predictor of a yet un-tested barrel.

And just who got called out?

Certainly not Jesse (JES) as he doesn't frequent this site that I know of.

This thread really has been revealing! (Not directed at Rex, just in case).

SU35,

I should not have said "a lot of folks," but a few definitely made comments that were pretty negative. None were you. Sorry for the inadvertent confusion.

I’m not trying to start anything here, but there are posts suggesting using a bore snake. Many esteemed gunsmiths advise against using them in a rifle barrel. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen Redneck respond to that effect. The problem is that if they get stuck, they are totally stuck.

Just sayin.

I've got a barrel that *looked* great, but never shot very well.
WTF?!

Will repeat my previous comments:

1) Nobody can tell whether a barrel will shoot well from a borescope--even if it's pitted all the way through.

2) Tiny little "defects" are REALLY common in many great-shooting barrels.

3) "Fire-lapping" will not take out tiny defects like those shown in the photos, unless they're pretty close to the chamber. And even if it does, there's no reason the barrel will shoot better. In fact it may shoot worse.

4) Same deal as (3) with so-called "breaking-in" a barrel by shooting/cleaning repeatedly.

5) ALL rebored barrels are cut-rifled. Nobody has found any other way to do it.

....and add that I've come to these conclusions after at least 20 years of experimenting with factory barrels, most with the aid of a bore-scope. Fire-lapping is only a real solution for a FEW specific barrel problems, primarily worn throats--and then should be done just enough to solve the problem--which is one great use of a bore-scope.

Hand-lapping an already chambered and crowned bore is more often harmful, due to possible damage to the throat and, especially, the crown and bore close to the muzzle. A correctly made barrel is not just pretty smooth inside, it's correctly dimensioned. Lapping it will probably change those dimensions--which is exactly why barrelmakers who lap bores do it BEFORE the chamber and crown are cut--and then cut off some of the muzzle section.